Between Heat and Hope - a climate litigation podcast for for students, fellow academics, and everyone interested in developments around climate litigation as a tool for propelling necessary climate action. With our guests from legal practice, academia and activism we discuss the most recent developments and shed light on the background, rationale, and theory surrounding the phenomenon.
This podcast forms part of the ERC funded project on climate litigation and democracy. You can find us at: climatelitigation.uva.nl
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Données mises à jour le 24/09/2026
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Anti-Democratic Strategic Litigation | with Svenja Ahlhaus
Saison 2 · Épisode 1
mercredi 23 septembre 2026 • Durée 51:24
In this episode we are joined by Professor Svenja Ahlhaus. Svenja Ahlhaus is junior professor of Political Theory at the University of Münster in Germany. Her research interests span from theories of political representation in ecological crises to the boundaries of political communities, migration, citizen- and membership, to questions of democracy and religion. In this episode we discuss some of Svenja’s recent and ongoing work on strategic litigation and its role in democracy; specifically whether there is such a thing as anti-democratic strategic litigation and how this concept relates to the context of strategic climate litigation.
Svenja explains some possible traits of strategic litigation that could mean that it actually undermines some core functioning of democracy. Through this conversation we gain insights on a more nuanced picture of strategic litigation. Which becomes only more important as strategic litigation becomes a more prevalent phenomenon and we are continuing to struggle with democratic backsliding. By understanding the risks it bears better, the conversation hopefully also inspires on how to address these challenges.
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
International Investment Law as an Obstacle to Climate Protection | with Stephanie Triefus and Wiebe Hommes
Saison 1 · Épisode 11
mercredi 8 juillet 2026 • Durée 48:09
International Investment Law as an Obstacle to Climate Protection
The episode introduces the basics of international investment law, zooming in on Investor-State Dispute Settlement (ISDS), a system of dispute resolution which allows foreign investors to seek damages, amounting on average to several hundreds of millions of euros, against governments.
Wiebe delves into the history of ISDS, explaining how fossil fuel companies like Shell were actively involved in the creation and shaping of international investment law. Stephanie outlines the most common criticisms of ISDS, including the system's lack of transparency and its potential to create a chilling effect on climate policy. She explains these dynamics further using the example of the case of ExxonMobil v the Netherlands concerning the closure of the Groningen gas field.
Finally, Stephanie and Wiebe reflect on perspectives for reform, concluding that procedural reforms of ISDS fall short of meaningfully addressing concerns around regulatory chill and the legitimacy of ISDS as such. Ending on a hopeful note, Stephanie brings up how ISDS was discussed as a potential barrier to climate action at the first Conference on Transitioning Away from Fossil Fuels in Santa Marta, indicating that internationally political momentum is building towards a potential overhaul of or exit from the system altogether.
Educating Climate Conscious Lawyers | with Julia Dehm
Saison 1 · Épisode 10
jeudi 25 juin 2026 • Durée 52:23
Educating Climate Conscious Lawyers
Julia Dehm speaks about what it means to work, teach, and think as a lawyer in the midst of the climate crisis. Julia reflects on the relationship between theoretical research and real-world impact, the importance of collaborative and community-engaged scholarship, and the need to make climate change central rather than peripheral to legal education and legal practice. The conversation also explores how historical approaches can help lawyers better understand the structures that have produced ecological harm, while also opening space for more just and imaginative legal futures.
The episode further discusses the practical and personal dimensions of doing climate-related work: avoiding burnout, balancing academic life with family responsibilities, and building supportive communities. The episode offers an invitation to think about law not only as a tool for responding to environmental crisis, but as a field that must itself be transformed by ecological awareness, responsibility, and care.
Julia Dehm is an Associate Professor and ARC DECRA Fellow in the School of Law, La Trobe University Australia. Her research addresses issues of international and domestic climate change and environmental law, natural resource governance and human rights, economic inequality and social justice. She visited the UvA as participant in the Decolonial Futures Scholars in Residence Programme 2026.
Science and Justice in Climate Litigation | with Joyeeta Gupta
Saison 1 · Épisode 9
mercredi 10 juin 2026 • Durée 44:34
Science and justice in climate litigation
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope, we are joined by Professor Joyeeta Gupta. Joyeeta Gupta is Professor of Environment and Development in the Global South at the University of Amsterdam and Professor at IHE Delft Institute for Water Education. Her work sits at the intersection of climate law, earth system science, and environmental justice, with a particular focus on the Global South. She has been involved in the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change
The conversation begins by unpacking the role and working methods of the Intergovernmental Panel on Climate Change, where Joyeeta has been involved as a lead author. It then turnsto the current state of climate science and the prospects of limiting global warming to 1.5°C with no or limited overshoot. Joyeeta walks us through key concepts such as carbon budgets, net zero and overshoot, and explains how these concepts shape mitigation pathways and questions of equity. From there, we discuss the role and limits of science in climate litigation. The episode then turns to North-South equity, fossil fuel phase-out, carbon lock-in, and the particular justice questions raised by climate cases in Europe and the Global South. Finally, Joyeeta reflects on her long engagement with global climate policy and on what a more sustainable and equitable future would require.
The Indirect Impacts of Climate Litigation | with César Rodriguez-Garavito
Saison 1 · Épisode 8
mercredi 13 mai 2026 • Durée 41:06
The Indirect Impacts of Climate Litigation
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope we are joined by Professor César Rodriguez-Garavito. César Rodriguez-Garavito is Professor of Law at the Center for Human Rights and Global Justice at New York University School of Law. He is the founding director of the More-Than-Human Life Program, the Earth Rights Research & Action Clinic, and the Commons on Machines, Policy, Automation & Society at NYU Law. His work focuses on international environmental law, Indigenous peoples’ rights, technology, and more-than-human rights. In 2025, Cesar published Climate Change on Trial: Mobilizing Human Rights Litigation to Accelerate Climate Action with Cambridge University Press.
The conversation explores the indirect impacts of climate litigation and the ways in which climate cases shape politics, public discourse, and the democratic process beyond the courtroom. Cesar reflects on his trajectory from socio-economic rights and socio-environmental conflicts to climate litigation and the rights of nature. Throughout the talk, we compare the development of climate litigation in Europe with experiences from Latin America and other regions of the world, discussing how different legal cultures and political contexts shape climate cases.
Drawing on Cesar’s earlier work on judicial activism and socio-economic rights, we discuss the distinction between direct and indirect effects of litigation, as well as the material and symbolic dimensions of climate judgments. We also explore the emergence of a global “litigation ecosystem,” where lawyers, scientists, activists, and communities increasingly collaborate across jurisdictions and disciplines. From the KlimaSeniorinnen judgment before the European Court of Human Rights to broader questions of standing, representation, and access to justice, the episode reflects on the democratic implications of climate litigation and the risks and opportunities of rights-based approaches to the climate crisis. Finally, Cesar shares his thoughts on the future of climate litigation and the transformative potential that climate cases may still hold.
Recommendations
Cesar Rodriguez-Garavito, .
Standing at the European Court of Human Rights | with Corina Heri
Saison 1 · Épisode 7
jeudi 23 avril 2026 • Durée 27:09
Standing at the European Court of Human Rights
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope we are join by Professor Corina Heri. Corina Heri is Associate Professor of human rights and climate change at Vrije Universiteit Brussel and Primary Investigator of the TEMPORALAW project. In this capacity she works on human rights law, climate change, the role of courts as well as the role of vulnerability in the law.
The conversation sets out discussing climate litigation before the European Court of Human Rights and particularly looks at different questions related to access to court and what kind of applicants can and should bring climate cases. Corina walks us through her critique of climate litigation exclusively being brought by associations as flattening the claims that can be made that way. From KlimaSeniorinnen we look to the wider set of climate cases before the ECtHR and discuss how Duarte Agostinho, Greenpeace Nordic, and possible the pending case Müllner v Austria fit into the puzzle and what they tell us about the Court’s approach to the climate crisis. Corina also shares some more structural insights on the functioning of the Court in relation to its narrative of limited resources and how that impacts its treatment of climate cases. Finally, we get a taste of the questions Corina’s new project TEMPORALAW will investigate.
A Law and Political Economy Approach to Climate Litigation | with Ioannis Kampourakis
Saison 1 · Épisode 6
jeudi 9 avril 2026 • Durée 42:53
A Law and Political Economy Approach to Climate Litigation
In this episode, Ioannis Kampourakis, Associate Professor at Erasmus University Rotterdam and co-director of the Law and Political Economy (LPE) in Europe project joins Rena Hänel, PhD researcher at the University of Amsterdam, to talk about what is to be learned from applying a Law and Political Economy lens to climate litigation.
The episode begins with Ioannis describing the theoretical foundations of Law and Political Economy as a stream of legal scholarship that emphasizes the law as being constitutive of markets and the economy more generally. He then applies these insights to explain both how law has helped to create and sustain unsustainable economic patterns at the root of the climate crisis, and how climate litigation could harness the transformative potential of the law by focusing on what he calls structural enablers of economic power.
The conversation then turns to the practical work that the LPE in Europe project is doing with civil society organizations engaged in strategic litigation, including climate litigation, to integrate insights from scholarship into their legal strategies. In the end, Ioannis and Rena discuss ideas for potential future case strategies that could address the climate crisis as part of a wider "polycrisis" of climate change, widening economic inequality and wars, among others.
Corporations, Climate Change & Human Rights | with Evelyne Schmid
Saison 1 · Épisode 5
lundi 23 mars 2026 • Durée 29:38
Corporations, Climate Change & Human Rights
For this episode of Between Heat and Hope we are joined by Professor Evelyne Schmid. Evelyne Schmid is a professor of international law at the University of Lausanne, where she is an expert in human rights. Her work focuses, among other things on corporate conduct and the safe and just operating space of humanity within the environment.
In this episode, we discuss with Evelyne the ongoing Swiss case of Asmania et al. brought by four plaintiffs from the Indonesian island of Pari against cement producer and major emitter Holcim. From the role of human rights in this case, we move to a wider discussion on applying human rights regimes to corporate conduct, the role of corporations in the climate crisis and attempts of regulating corporate conduct through social responsibility and sustainability due diligence schemes. Throughout the episode Evelyne, teases out why it is important to also litigate against corporations and not just against states. She discusses the impact corporate conduct has on emissions and the power corporations hold in the international system, as well as the consensus in the international community that corporations have to be actively engaged in the green transition.
Lawyering before the European Court of Human Rights | with Veronika Fikfak
Saison 1 · Épisode 4
lundi 9 mars 2026 • Durée 32:25
Lawyering before the European Court of Human Rights
In this episode of Between Heat and Hope, Veronika Fikfak, professor of Human Rights and International Law at UCL, joins us to discuss the ‘European Human Rights Bar’, this is the network of lawyers that bring cases to the European Court of Human Rights (ECtHR). Having just completed an ERC Starting Grant and being about to start an ERC Consolidated Grant, Veronika has done extensive empirical work – both qualitative and quantitative – on the ECtHR. In this episode, she shares her great expertise on lawyering before the ECtHR and links it for us to current and future climate cases before the Strasbourg Court. We discuss opportunities and limits of bringing a climate case to the ECtHR, reflect on the consequences of the particularities of climate litigation in light of Veronika's research findings on the European Human Rights Bar in general, and discuss the advantages and disadvantages of the separation but also cooperation between domestic lawyers and their ECHR counterparts.
Music: “Delayed Flight” by Michael Ramir C. via mixkit
The Legal Strategy behind Greenpeace The Netherlands v Netherlands (Bonaire case) | with Eefje de Kroon
Saison 1 · Épisode 3
lundi 23 février 2026 • Durée 46:56
The Legal Strategy behind Greenpeace The Netherlands v Netherlands (Bonaire case)
In this third episode, Eefje de Kroon, Greenpeace The Netherlands’ Campaign Lead for Climate and Energy, speaks with Tessa Trapp, PhD Researcher at the University of Amsterdam, about the Bonaire Climate Case (Greenpeace The Netherlands v The Netherlands). The conversation begins with a brief overview of the Dutch court’s judgment pronounced on January 28, 2026, and the mitigation, adaptation, and non-discrimination obligations for the Dutch government. Eefje then expands on Greenpeace's advocacy and legal strategy relating to Bonaire, including on the special history, culture, and traditions, as well as particular vulnerability of the island. She also talks about the close relationship and collaboration with residents of Bonaire and people with a personal connection to Bonaire, who played a central role not just in planning the case, but also in its success, despite not being granted individual legal standing. To conclude, Eefje and Tessa look to the future and discuss potential follow-ups, as well as political and judicial consequences of the judgment.
References
Bonaire Case (Dutch with links to the English translation)
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Music: “Delayed Flight” by Michael Ramir C. via mixkit
Recorded at the University of Amsterdam, April 2026
The LitDem Project
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union’s Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon 2020 research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Recorded at the University of Amsterdam, February 2026
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
Recorded at the University of Amsterdam, January 2026
This project has received funding from the European Research Council (ERC) under the European Union's Horizon Europe research and innovation programme (grant agreement n° 101125511).
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