In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Gideon Grunfeld discuss:

• Strategies for pricing legal services effectively
• Overcoming psychological barriers to fee adjustments in legal practice
• The importance of tailoring legal service models
• Leveraging emotional connections and effective communication in client relationships

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers often undercharge because they fear client objections, but raising rates with new clients or incrementally testing higher fees with existing clients can result in fairer compensation.
• Time is not always the best proxy for value in legal services; using flat fees or value-based pricing can align better with the real impact of a lawyer's work.
• Approaching legal service delivery as a relationship rather than a transaction allows lawyers to justify higher fees by emphasizing guidance, expertise, and emotional support.
• A subscription model can be a game-changer for repetitive, high-volume work, such as employment law, offering consistent engagement and client satisfaction.

"The value you're providing has very little to do with the time you're putting in. In fact, if you can make it go away really fast, the client values it even more. So, do not charge by the hour." —  Gideon Grunfeld

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Huberman Lab Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/huberman-lab/id1545953110

About Gideon Grunfeld: Gideon Grunfeld was, for almost ten years, a large law firm business litigator and an antitrust attorney. As the president and founder of Rainmaking For Lawyers, he has since 2004 consulted with law firms and coached individual partners, of counsel, and associates to grow their book of business. In this capacity, he has helped thousands of lawyers increase their initial retainers, raise their hourly rates and flat fees, communicate their fees to clients, and increase their collections.

Connect with Gideon Grunfeld:  

Website: https://rainmakingforlawyers.com/

Email: gideon@rainmakingforlawyers.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/ggrunfeld/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Russell Knight discuss:

• Challenges and strategies in scaling a legal practice
• Balancing professional and personal commitments effectively
• Building and retaining talent within a growing law firm
• The role of firm culture and external development in professional success

Key Takeaways:

• Hiring experienced professionals, even at a higher cost, provides stability and reduces the training needs of fresh graduates who require more supervision.
• Ongoing recruitment through social media and outreach ensures a steady talent pipeline, allowing potential hires to learn about the firm’s culture before joining.
• Investing in external development programs, like trial advocacy courses, enhances lawyers’ skills, strengthens loyalty, and shows the firm’s commitment to their growth.
• Hosting team-building events, such as farm-to-table dinners or concert outings, fosters culture, encourages cohesion, and attracts top talent.

"Stop being cheap. That dollar isn’t your dollar; it’s the firm’s dollar, and it needs to get spent on people that aren’t you." —  Russell Knight

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Unreasonable Hospitality: The Remarkable Power of Giving People More Than They Expect by Will Guidara: https://www.amazon.com/Unreasonable-Hospitality-Remarkable-Giving-People/dp/0593418573

About Russell Knight: Russell Knight is an experienced divorce and family law attorney with offices in Chicago and Naples. He has authored over 700 articles and contributed to legal publications, including the Illinois Institute for Continuing Legal Education. Frequently quoted by NBC News and Newsweek, Russell offers expert guidance on divorce, contracts, litigation, and equity issues. Fluent in English, French, and Spanish, he provides strategic support to clients navigating complex family law matters.

Connect with Russell Knight:  

Website: https://rdklegal.com/

Email: russelldknight@gmail.com

Personal LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/russell-d-knight/

Company LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/law-office-of-russell-d-knight/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/LawOfficeofRussellDKnight

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/divorceattorneyknight/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Tracy LaLonde discuss:

• Dynamics of trust in professional and client relationships
• Stress management and work-life balance strategies
• Effective delegation and communication for legal professionals
• Maintaining integrity and transparency in business

Key Takeaways:

• Trust grows through intentional, proactive communication, where even small gestures like timely responses build respect, while ignoring issues can erode trust and risk client loyalty.
• Finding personal joy amid work demands means setting boundaries (like leaving office on time) and developing discipline to prioritize non-work activities, even when emails and tasks pile up.
• Incremental delegation—starting with small tasks and expanding—builds confidence and trust, allowing the delegator to guide quality without an "all-or-nothing" approach.
• Acknowledging when personal matters affect responsiveness and communicating transparently with clients, even with a brief update, repairs trust and reassures them of quality service.

"Integrity is everything. And I define integrity as doing what you say you’re going to do when you said you were going to do it." —  Tracy LaLonde

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Why We Sleep: Unlocking the Power of Sleep and Dreams by Matthew Walker

About Tracy LaLonde: Tracy LaLonde, an engaging trainer and speaker with over 30 years of experience, is dedicated to revolutionizing engagement in law firms. She offers practical, easy-to-digest guidance backed by cutting-edge research that will make a lasting impact on lawyers and business professionals. Through Joychiever’s Hierarchy of Engagement, as well as her comprehensive courses, Tracy equips law firms with tools to boost engagement, foster trust, minimize burnout, bolster financial performance, and create a culture where people thrive. With her dynamic approach, Tracy is setting a new standard for the legal industry.

Connect with Tracy LaLonde:  

Website: https://www.joychiever.com/

Email: tracy@joychiever.com

Book: Trust Me: The Insider's Guide to Being the Go-To Person at Work

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/tracylalonde/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Mair Hill discuss:

• Being in control of who you work with.
• Teaching, learning, and selling with the younger generations.
• Best ways for lawyers to learn business development.
• The six senses of business development.

Key Takeaways:

• If you don’t understand your younger employees, listen more. They are telling you what they need, what they want, and what they know, it is up to you to listen.
• TikTok can’t teach you every lesson and the answer you want is always going to be found online, even if it isn’t the right answer.
• There are multiple ways to do business development - getting outside, professional help can assist you with understanding what you need to do and how you can best to succeed.
• Build the relationships, stay authentic, and keep to the cornerstones of classic selling. That is going to help you to build your business.

"The more authentic you are, the sweeter success tastes." —  Mair Hill

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Green Cardigan Marketing: https://greencardiganmarketing.com/

Episode References: 

• How to Win Friends and Influence People by Dale Carnegie
• How I Raised Myself from Failure to Success in Selling by Frank Bettger

Connect with Mair Hill: 

Website: https://mairhillconsulting.com/

Book: https://www.amazon.com/GOOD-PLAN-One-You-Can/dp/1502520125

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mairhill/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/entrepreneurswhowantmoresales

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/mairhillinspires/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@yoursalesprofessor

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Alay Yajnik and Steve Fretzin discuss:

• Perfect practice in your business development. 
• Why lawyers struggle with business development. 
• The reason having your own book of business is more important than ever before.
• Tips for starting your next year off with a bang. 

Key Takeaways:

• Being a great lawyer alone isn’t enough, you also need to have a great book of business to control your own future and success as a lawyer. 
• When sales is done in a sales-free way, it’s really about solving problems. 
• Start building your book of business and your network early in your career. It doesn’t need to be the first year, but by years 3-5, you will want to start building your own freedom and independence. 
• Get some level of competency in your skill that gives you a level of freedom and control. 

"If you have your own clients and build your own book of business, you call the shots. You can write your own adventure." —  Steve Fretzin

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Getting Things Done by David Allen
• Under the Influence with Terry O’Reilly

Connect with Alay Yajnik:  

Website: LawyerBusinessAdvantage.com

One Page Strategic Plan: LawFirmSuccessGroup.com

Email: Alay@YajnikGroup.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/alayyajnik

Book: https://www.lawfirmsuccessgroup.com/book/

Lawyer Business Advantage Podcast: https://www.lawfirmsuccessgroup.com/podcast-2/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Charles Gillis discuss:

• Why associates are the key to profitability in a law firm. 
• How COVID changed the landscape of law for young lawyers. 
• The generational change in lawyers in the industry. 
• Tips for hiring and recruiting. 

Key Takeaways:

• Working in a remote or hybrid firm is possible, but having a connection and building relationships are key, especially for newer associates. 
• What you do in the first 7-8 years of your practice will lay the foundation for the rest of your career. 
• You do not always need to work with a recruiter to hire great talent. You just need to be plugged into your community and invest time in new lawyers and excellent law students. 
• If you are working with a recruiter, make sure to qualify them and build the relationship to make sure they are who you want to work with. 

"You can put information out, without being too heavy-handed, about who we are and what we value. And smart candidates research the heck out of that stuff. The challenge is to live it." —  Charles Gillis

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• We Regret to Inform You Podcast: https://apostrophepodcasts.ca/rejection/
• Book: The Goal by Eliyahu Goldratt

About Charles Gillis: Charles Gillis is a seasoned business executive who has over thirty years of law firm management and administration experience. At Platt Richmond, Mr. Gillis oversees all strategic and operational matters for the firm, including finances, human resources, and marketing. He is the author of The Seven Year Trap: Back Office Observations of the Business of Law & the Path to Partnership. Charles received an undergraduate degree from The University of Texas at Austin, an executive MBA from The University of Texas at Dallas, and a Graduate Finance Certificate from Southern Methodist University. He holds an SHRM Senior Certified Professional (SHRMSCP) designation.

Connect with Charles Gillis:  

Website: https://plattrichmond.com/

Book: https://www.amazon.com/Seven-Year-Trap-Observations-Partnership/dp/0692195661

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/gillis/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/pcrfirm/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Dan Warburton discuss:

• Lessons learned the hard way in leadership and delegation. 
• Top things lawyers should delegate and are not. 
• How to ensure those you delegate to are not going to leave your firm. 
• The process and steps for delegation. 

Key Takeaways:

• Only when somebody feels like their future is being impacted by their actions will they take their actions seriously. 
• While it will take time to delegate your responsibilities effectively and appropriately, it will save time and make a difference more quickly than you realize. 
• It is not required to do all the client work to maintain the client relationship. 
• Write down your procedures. If you don’t, everything gets done slightly differently, then there is no way to track and improve it. 

"Delegating can feel painful and like wading through mud at the beginning. And, in the short run, it is much easier to carry on doing it all yourself, but then you build a firm that keeps you in urgency, not working on what’s important." —  Dan Warburton

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• $100M Offers by Alex Hormozi
• $100M Leads by Alex Hormozi
• The Game with Alex Hormozi

Connect with Dan Warburton:  

Website: https://www.danwarburton.com/

Book: Dream It Choose It Live It

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@DanWarburton

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/authordanwarburton/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Matt Spiegel discuss:

• Why you should have good customer service as a lawyer and for your law firm. 
• Continuing client relationships beyond the case. 
• How Lawmatics can help you to maintain client relationships and better run your law firm. 
• Processes, procedures, and automation. 

Key Takeaways:

• Your law firm is a service business. You need to have good customer service and a good customer experience. 
• Most legal business comes from referrals - if you don’t nurture client relationships and networking partners, you are leaving money on the table. 
• Most lawyers are using a CRM (client relationship management) in some fashion, even if you don’t call it that - even your phone is, technically, a CRM. Having a proper CRM to manage all aspects of your client relationship from meeting until the end is key. 
• As a lawyer, you are likely looking at revenue/billing-driven KPIs. However, there is so much more data you can extract from your numbers and information you’re tracking that can help you build a stronger firm. 

"Your book of business that you’re sitting on is a goldmine. And like any goldmine, it needs to be mined. It won’t come to the surface without any effort." —  Matt Spiegel

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/1-month-free/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• All-In Podcast - https://www.allinpodcast.co/
• The Rewatchables Podcast - https://www.theringer.com/the-rewatchables
• Get a 10% Discount on Lawmatics at https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

About Matt Spiegel: Matt Spiegel is a serial entrepreneur and lawyer who enjoys building products and solving problems using management and marketing automation software for attorneys. He founded MyCase and Lawmatics, the latter of which he also serves as CEO. He worked as a criminal defense attorney but has spent years focused on innovating the legal-tech space to help attorneys scale their business.

Connect with Matt Spiegel:  

Website: https://www.lawmatics.com/

Email: matt@lawmatics.com

Twitter: https://twitter.com/mattspiegelesq

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mattspiegelesq/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Mason discuss:

• Separating our identities and the roles we play in life. 
• Why many people go to law school…often without knowing what to expect. 
• The relationships between ourselves, myths, and culture. 
• Professional freedom and moving past feeling trapped. 

Key Takeaways:

• What makes you happy is intimately related to who and what you are - it is directly aligned with knowing yourself. 
• Myths are a projection of the stories we tell ourselves about our identities. 
• When you understand your narrative, you can start to be the hero and begin to write the path you choose, not what others are choosing for you. 
• Purpose plus values will lead to your vision of what is possible. Levened with an understanding of your non-negotiables, then you will be able to create your vision and create a plan to make it happen. 

"If you're smart enough to be a lawyer, you're smart enough to figure out how to survive in this world one way or another. And you'll probably do better if you're being true to yourself." —  Scott Mason

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/1-month-free/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• The Lawyers Edge Podcast: https://thelawyersedge.com/podcast/

About Scott Mason: Scott Mason is the Myth Slayer, a transformational executive & leadership coach for unhappy lawyers looking to find professional freedom and live the life of their dreams. After graduating from Columbia Law School, Scott worked for over 20 years as an attorney and C-Suite executive with numerous government and nonprofit organizations before successfully growing and scaling a manufacturing company. Scott's insights have appeared in book compilations and online magazines as well as on television and podcasts, and he currently sits on the Board of the NYC chapter of the National Speakers Association. 

Connect with Scott Mason:  

Website: https://www.myfreedomrocks.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/themythslayer/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/myfreedomrocks/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/s.scott_mason/

TikTok: https://www.tiktok.com/@themythslayer_

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/scott.mason.1291/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Rick Watson discuss:

• Building a professional network (and how to do it right). 
• Things lawyers are really bad at doing. 
• The hidden sales in your professional service firm. 
• Being likable and referrable. 

Key Takeaways:

• There is a difference between building a wide network (full of lots of people) and building a deep network, with great referral partners that can help you to bring in work regularly. 
• Balancing giving and taking in your network. Build up those you’re networking with and give them the hype that they deserve in your introductions. 
• Trust compression is the human tendency to make decisions about others based on the number of interactions, not the length of those interactions. 
• Be creative in keeping top of mind and in touch with people. It takes time and attention, but is worth maintaining those relationships. 

"One of the things you can do to make yourself look bigger and better is to edify the people around you." —  Rick Watson

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/1-month-free/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Rework by Jason Fried

About Rick Watson: Rick Watson is the author of “A Firm Worth Building”, which helps professional businesses scale and thrive. He identifies a common problem advice professionals all seem to share. These business owners focus more on performing their professional specialty rather than what it takes to run the business well. Many professional firms, struggle to find “good” growth. Some professionals even look to discard a percentage of their client book every few years, as a way of managing growth. Rick would say this is all backward. When you build a strong business, as the firm grows it gets easier to run, not harder.

Rick’s unique experience was forged from growing a firm with only $20 in his savings to managing ½ billion dollars in his current RIA and becoming the CEO of the National Referral Network and several other businesses which has forced him to be a student of running businesses in the best possible way. Rick’s book “A Firm Worth Building” covers about 30 lessons that every business owner should know, from thinking through branding to increasing referrals through professional networks. Additionally, he has a few unique success concepts like compressing the time it takes to build client trust and why building up your staff and other professionals through a dedicated process of “edification” is so helpful. He and his partners are forward-thinkers, their motto is - "We build what should exist". Rick and his team are not afraid of complexity, hard work, or innovation. Rick’s accomplishments have opened the path to achieving his own dreams. Living with his family on a 5-acre horse ranch and wine-making operation in Loomis, CA, he still finds the time to enjoy the life that he has been able to build through embodying his own teachings. When he's not helping manage and scale businesses, Rick rides Arabian horses in 30-100 mile races.

Connect with Rick Watson:  

Website: 

• protectionpointadvisors.com
• nrnamerica.com

LinkedIn: 

• linkedin.com/in/rickwatsonppa
• linkedin.com/company/protectionpointadvisors
• linkedin.com/company/national-referral-network

Facebook: 

• facebook.com/richard.watson.92351
• facebook.com/protectionpointadvisors

Book: A Firm Worth Building

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Meredith Bell discuss:

• Challenges with communication and why the way we talk to each other matters. 
• Communication between the generations in a workplace. 
• Managing expectations and understanding values and work ethic. 
• Why positive feedback is key to relationships and company culture. 

Key Takeaways:

• Many challenges we face are because we come into conversation with assumptions about those we are speaking with. 
• If we slow down enough to ask people what is important to them, listening, then acting upon that information is going to make a difference, no matter who you are talking to. 
• Agreements are talked about by both parties; expectations are full of assumptions without communication. 
• To give more valuable positive feedback, you, as a leader, need to notice more, notice those things you really value, and share that with your team. 

"When you think about the generations, if we're willing to listen, to ask questions, and listen to learn what's important to this person, then I think we can break down some of these barriers around perceptions and assumptions that we have around whatever the age group is that you want to identify as troublesome for you." —  Meredith Bell

Get a free audio copy of Steve’s book “Legal Business Development Isn’t Rocket Science” here: https://fretzin.com/audiobook

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/1-month-free/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• How to Get Clients by Steve Chandler
• The One Minute Manager by Kenneth Blanchard
• The Rising Leader Podcast with Mark J Silverman

About Meredith Bell: 

Meredith is the Co-founder and President of Grow Strong Leaders. Her company publishes software tools and books that help people build strong relationships at work and at home. Meredith is an expert in leader and team communications, the author of three books, and the host of the Grow Strong Leaders Podcast.

Her latest books, co-authored with her business partner, Dr. Dennis Coates, are Connect with Your Team: Mastering the Top 10 Communication Skills, and Peer Coaching Made Simple. In them, Meredith and Denny provide how-to guides for improving communication skills and serving as a peer coach to someone else.

Connect with Meredith Bell:   

Website: https://growstrongleaders.com/

Grow Strong Leaders Podcast: https://growstrongleaders.com/podcasts/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/meredithmbell

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/1561855

Twitter: https://twitter.com/meredithmbell

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/MeredithMBell

Books: 

• Connect With Your Team - https://www.amazon.com/dp/1734805110
• Peer Coaching Made Simple - https://www.amazon.com/Peer-Coaching-Made-Simple-Helping/dp/1734805145

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Philip Fairley discuss:

• Measuring everything in your business for success. 
• Biggest opportunities for growth for small law firms. 
• The most overlooked area of your law firm. 
• Competing with larger firms in your marketing without spending an arm and a leg.

Key Takeaways:

• Run your business on the numbers, not on a feeling. Look at the data on a consistent basis and take action on it. 
• Get content out consistently - everyone is watching short-form videos, so do that. Right now, the biggest opportunity is video. 
• React to pop culture, use it as a way to brand, and tell people you’re a lawyer without saying it. This is one way to get your other content moving and visible to more people. 
• Repurpose your content - there are dozens of ways you can repurpose a long-form video with basic editing for different platforms and audiences. 

"Your potential clients don’t know what they don’t know. By you educating them, you’re branding to them, and that’s when you’re starting to attract more." —  Philip Fairley

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/1-month-free/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• The Rainmaker Institute- Free YouTube Channel Optimization Guide: www.therainmakerinstitute.com/bethatlawyer
• No Bullsh!t Leadership Podcast: https://www.yourceomentor.com/leadership-podcast

About Philip Fairley: Philip Fairley is the President and owner of The Rainmaker Institute, the nation’s largest law firm marketing company that focuses exclusively on client generation, lead conversion, and data analytics. During his time at Rainmaker, he co-developed Turbine®: the only software platform that automates the intake process, and Rainalytics®: the only tool that automatically measures all law firm data. 

Philip holds degrees from Northwestern University, Wheaton College, and Keller Graduate School, is an NCAA Division I National Debate Champion, and is a recognized expert on intake, lead conversion, and innovative video marketing. His and Rainmaker’s expertise has been noted and quoted in the American Bar Association’s Journal, Entrepreneur, Inc., Fortune Small Business, Harvard Management Update, Business Advisor, the Chicago Tribune, Crain’s Chicago Business, and Attorney at Law magazines. 

Prior to owning Rainmaker, he was the founder and CEO of two successful companies that specialized in legal tech, cyber security, and communications. He is married with three children and enjoys the Arizona lifestyle, mountain biking, and coaching youth sports. Rainmaker has helped over 23,000 attorneys and law firms grow their business by learning and implementing our proven marketing and intake strategies.

Connect with Philip Fairley:  

Website: https://therainmakerinstitute.com/

Email: philip@therainmakerinstitute.com

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/@lifestylelawfirm

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/philipfairley/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/the-rainmaker-institute/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/TheRainmakerInstitute

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/rainmakerinstitute/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Natalie Knowlton discuss:

• The growing number of people DIYing their legal needs and why lawyers should be concerned. 
• Non-lawyer ownership of law firms. 
• Why lawyers should embrace thoughtful legal regulatory reform. 
• Emerging business models in the practice of law. 

Key Takeaways:

• Law is both a profession and a business. Your law firm should be running as an actual business that provides legal services. 
• Consumers are responding to the commoditization of the law - it is a way that consumers recognize and understand how to use. 
• You can monetize legal information. There is a level of legal information you can package and sell that the average person just doesn’t know. 
• Technology is causing a disruption and a change in the legal industry. That technology, such as AI, is likely here to stay and is only going to get more sophisticated. 

"Regulatory reform is here to stay. I think the level of opposition we are seeing is a testament to the fact that it is here to stay." —  Natalie Knowlton

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Final Event of 2023!: https://fretzin.com/events
• Talk Justice: https://legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/talk-justice/
• Mathew Kerbis: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mathewrobertkerbis/

About Natalie Knowlton: Natalie Anne Knowlton is the Founder of Access to Justice Ventures, empowering entrepreneurs who are developing scalable access to justice solutions. She is a 2023 ABA Journal Legal Rebel and is listed among the ABA Legal Technology Resource Center’s 2022 Women of Legal Tech.

Connect with Natalie Knowlton:  

Website: https://a2jventures.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/natalieanneknowlton/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/natalalleycat  

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Deb Feder discuss:

• Importance of client relationship management and deepening connections
• Prioritizing tasks to enhance productivity and work-life balance
• Role of social media in professional growth and networking
• Effective business development and optimizing client interactions

Key Takeaways:

• Lawyers can achieve more sustainable productivity by prioritizing just two major tasks before checking email each day, preventing inbox overwhelm from dictating their workflow.
• Strategic questioning, like asking "Tell me more" or inquiring about specific client concerns, allows lawyers to gather deeper insights that often reveal additional opportunities to add value.
• LinkedIn profile optimization—especially the "about" section and professional headline—helps professionals attract the right clients by clearly reflecting their expertise and approach.
• Lawyers should leverage informal moments and small talk in client interactions to create authentic connections, which ultimately build client loyalty and lead to new business opportunities.

"Tell me more… triggers your brain to get back in and actually actively listen, and from there you can thoughtfully respond." —  Deb Feder

Got a challenge growing your law practice? Email me at steve@fretzin.com with your toughest question, and I'll answer it live on the show—anonymously, just using your first name!

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Make No Small Plans: Lessons on Thinking Big, Chasing Dreams, and Building Community

About Deb Feder: Deb Feder, CEO of Feder Development, LLC, is a business development and practice management strategist and coach for lawyers and law firms. Having practiced corporate law for 15 years, her work focuses on helping lawyers and professionals bring in consistent clients through curious, confident conversations. Deb holds a history degree from the University of Michigan and her JD/MBA from the University of Iowa. She completed her coach training and certification through New Ventures West and completed training in The Daring Way, which is based on the research of Dr. Brené Brown. She is the author of After Hello and Tell Me More.

Connect with Deb Feder:  

Website: https://debfeder.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bizdeb/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Michael Liebowitz discuss:

• Behavioral neurology and how it relates to business development. 
• Understanding your business identity and your identity in your business. 
• Belief alignment, story connection, and the message you are conveying.
• Talking about the money and criteria for success early in the discovery process. 

Key Takeaways:

• All businesses are personal, all great businesses are very personal. 
• The biggest mistake businesses of all sizes make is talking about what they do, and not what it means. 
• Start with the outcome, then follow it up with the belief system. 
• You need to talk about your business in a way that makes people want to work with you. 

"We are excellent BS detectors. And what I mean by BS is Belief System. We learn this at a very young age. We intuitively know when someone is saying something they don't really believe." —  Michael Liebowitz

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• ProVisors: https://provisors.com/
• Pivot: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/piv

About Michael Liebowitz: Michael creates messages that make more money. Lots of business owners struggle finding that one, perfect message that grabs attention, differentiates, and inspires people to want to work with them. My clients hire me to find theirs. He works with consultants and founders to get them saying all the right things in their marketing, networking conversations, and sales calls that generate more business. 

The result: 

Landing more of their ideal clients faster 

Website and marketing is converting 

Networking conversations produce results 

Sales cycle is shorter

Connect with Michael Liebowitz:   

Website: https://www.mindmagnetizer.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeljliebowitz/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brooke Lively discuss:

• Avoiding analysis by paralysis. 
• The six key components of business that you need to understand. 
• EOS (Traction) for law firms. 
• Defining roles and delegating for law firm success. 

Key Takeaways:

• When you have your data dialed in, you can see where the issues really are and then you can fix them. 
• Most companies are running at about 20% strong on the six key components. Very few have 100%, but the goal is to always get better. 
• If everything is important, nothing is important. You’ve got to keep the one thing, the one thing. 
• There are many free resources for getting started with EOS that can help transform your law firm now. 

"When you've got the vision, when you've got the right people that understand that vision and are helping to create it, that are rowing in the same direction, and you're doing it all based on data - everything in your company becomes so clear." —  Brooke Lively

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Final Event of 2023!: https://fretzin.com/events
• Check out the previous episode with Brooke here: https://www.fretzin.com/podcast/episodes/brooke-lively-from-panic-to-profit-in-your-law-firm/
• Traction by Gino Wickman: https://www.amazon.com/Traction-Get-Grip-Your-Business/dp/1936661837
• EOS Worldwide: https://www.eosworldwide.com/brooke-lively
• Take The Assessment: https://organizationalcheckup.com/

About Brooke Lively: Brooke is the Founder and President of Cathcap, a group of Profitability Specialists and CEOs who help lawyers grow, scale, and create more profitable firms. She started the company after spinning up a 7-figure law firm in under 2 years and receiving requests for help from other law firm owners for help. That was when Brooke began to understand the apprehension lawyers felt around the numbers in their business, and how rarely they used data in their decision-making process. As Cathcap grew and helped more than 200 firms, she began to see a trend between the firms that excelled and the ones that just survived - and that difference was implementing EOS. After years of trying to find great EOS coaches who understood the legal industry, Brooke ultimately became an EOS Implementer and now helps law firms achieve all their goals. 

Brooke is an international speaker, international best-selling author, and coach whose down to earth actionable advice has helped hundreds of lawyers. She loves nothing more than the moment when "the light bulb goes on" and she knows that a person is going to take action that will positively impact their business, and not only their life, but the lives of their clients and employees. Brooke holds an MBA in Corporate Finance and Investments from TCU, is a CFA Charter holder, has been voted one of Fort Worth's CFOs of the year, and has been featured in such publications as CNBC, Forbes, and US News and World Report.

Connect with Brooke Lively:  

Website: https://cathcap.com/  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/brookelively/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/cathedralcapital/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/boo.lively.3

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/CathedralCapital

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jonathan Fitzgarrald discuss:

• Collaboration between a lawyer and a business coach. 
• Why you should have a business plan for your law firm. 
• Finding the right referral partners and investors. 
• Ideas for staying top of mind and staying in touch.

Key Takeaways:

• Relationships are proactive, not reactive. 
• If you don’t have a plan, you won’t know where you are going.
• Be the go-to person for people outside of the things you do. 
• Listen with your eyes - people are telling you more on LinkedIn than even they realize. 

"The number one challenge for most professionals is staying top of mind among their target audience for people who can refer them business." —  Jonathan Fitzgarrald

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Accept Steve’s Challenge at: http://fretzin.com/
• Alex Hormozi: https://www.youtube.com/@AlexHormozi
• Jerry Maatman: https://www.linkedin.com/in/geraldmaatman/
• ProVisors: https://provisors.com/
• The Armstrong & Getty Podcasts - https://www.armstrongandgetty.com/podcasts/

About Jonathan Fitzgarrald: Jonathan Fitzgarrald looks to undervalued professionals, untapping their potential to grow revenue, market visibility, and their practices. Many of the firms Jonathan advises report up to 20 percent increases in revenue within the first year. Jonathan’s proprietary approach adapts a Moneyball strategy by recognizing and coaching traditionally overlooked, highly skilled professionals in legal, financial, accounting, and professional services firms.

Connect with Jonathan Fitzgarrald:  

Website: https://equinoxstrategy.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathanfitzgarrald/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/equinox-strategy-partners

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JRFitzgarrald

Twitter: https://twitter.com/EquinoxStrategy

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/EquinoxStrategy

Instagram: https://instagram.com/JRFitzgarrald

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Stewart Wessel discuss:

• How Stewart got into legal recruiting. 
• The control and freedom that comes from having your own book of business. 
• Building your network. 
• Understanding the market for 1+1=3. 

Key Takeaways:

• As a younger lawyer, you do not have to start building your book alone - you can bring a more senior attorney with you to help close the deal. 
• The optimal size of your book when making a lateral move is different depending on where you are trying to move. 
• When making a lateral move, look for a fit outside of just a monetary fit. The cultural fit and what you’re looking to get out of the firm will also make a difference in where you want to look. 
• There are many questions you need to understand so you go into a move with your eyes wide open. 

"The truth of the matter is, that's the baseline. The expectation is you're a great lawyer, but you need to have business in order to have some control and some freedom over your life and make moves." —  Stewart Wessel

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Last Event of 2023!: https://fretzin.com/events
• ProVisors: https://provisors.com/
• Eat That Frog! By Brian Tracy: https://www.amazon.com/Eat-That-Frog-Great-Procrastinating/dp/B08NN397DN/ref=sr_1_1

Connect with Stewart Wessel:  

Website: https://www.thewessel.group/

Email: stewart@thewessel.group

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/stewart-wessel-88935ab/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Diane DiResta discuss:

• The value of speaking both in person and virtually.
• Common mistakes lawyers make when speaking.
• Understanding your audience.
• What to do when you’re nervous (and why those nerves are selfish).

Key Takeaways:

• Fit is often about culture, not about a skill mismatch.
• It doesn’t matter if you are a fast speaker, you want to leave space in between - remember the pause. That is where the information you are sharing is going to land with the audience.
• Speaking is 90% preparation and 10% delivery - the price you charge is for more than the 1 hour of your time to give the presentation.
• Group things into 3 - it is more memorable. Stories also are memorable and touch the heart.

"Speaking is one of the most powerful and cost-effective marketing tools you can have.  It's like test driving a car, they get to see you in action." —  Diane DiResta

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Gladden Longevity Podcast - https://gladdenlongevity.com/podcast-episodes/

About Diane DiResta: Diane DiResta, CSP, is Founder and CEO of DiResta Communications, Inc., a New York City consultancy serving business leaders who deliver high-stakes presentations— whether one-to-one, in front of a crowd, or from a virtual platform. DiResta is the author of Knockout Presentations: How to Deliver Your Message with Power, Punch, and Pizzazz, an Amazon.com category best-seller, and has spoken on 4 continents. She works with lawyers and leaders to speak with confidence, clarity, and exude executive presence. Diane is Past President of the NYC chapter of National Speakers Association and former media trainer for the NBA and WNBA. She was featured on CNN, and quoted in the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, London Guardian, and Investors Business Daily, and Bloomberg radio. Diane is a Certified Speaking Professional, a designation held by less than 12% of speakers nationwide. She is a Certified Virtual Presenter. And her blog, Knockout Presentations, made the Top 50 Public Speaking blogs. 

Diane is Past President of the NYC chapter of National Speakers Association and former media trainer for the NBA and WNBA. She was featured on CNN, and quoted in the NY Times, Wall Street Journal, London Guardian, and Investors Business Daily, and Bloomberg radio. Diane is a Certified Speaking Professional, a designation held by less than 12% of speakers nationwide. She is a Certified Virtual Presenter. Her LinkedIn Learning course Speaking Confidently and Effectively made the Top 20 Most Popular courses for two consecutive years.

Connect with Diane DiResta:  

Website: https://www.diresta.com/

Book: Knockout Presentations: How to Deliver Your Message with Power, Punch, and Pizzazz

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/dianediresta

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/diresta-communications-inc-

Twitter: https://twitter.com/speakingpro

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/diane.diresta/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/dianediresta

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Erik Olson, Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Jared Correia, and Gyi Tsakalakis discuss:

• Social media and your law firm.
• Doing research on LinkedIn for potential connections. 
• Taking accountability for what you publish on social media. 
• Directing people back to your website for the full content and owning your content on your website. 

Key Takeaways:

• Be on the social platforms that your audience is on. 
• Keep your social media posts to information, not advice. Clients want to know about the legal process. 
• Responding to negative reviews is not for the reviewer - it is for the next person who sees it and sees that you are recognizing it. 
• Repurpose the content on your website for social media - don’t make more work for yourself. 
• All content should be guided through the eyes of your audience. 

"You've got to think about who your audience is. But I will tell you this, from a from a top of mind awareness standpoint, it's the best, the most efficient, and the most effective way to stay in front of your audience on a regular basis. It's cheaper than TV, it's cheaper than radio. Radio and TV don't even have the eyeballs and the attention span that social media has." —  Gyi Tsakalakis

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Lawmatics: https://www.lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer/

Episode References: 

• LinkedIn Examples: 
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/ryanmckeen/
  • https://www.linkedin.com/in/brewster-rawls/
• YouTube Examples: 
  • https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCra2AXtKeyqnkAcToRAP8ww
  • https://www.youtube.com/playlist?list=PLCFwfTmTPYWyj7F2tg6VPOzg2b1eRru8P
• Clio Legal Trends: https://www.clio.com/resources/legal-trends/
• What Legal Consumers Want to Know Article: https://www.attorneyatwork.com/2019-clio-legal-trends-report-lawyers-fail-to-communicate-value/
• Coogan Knows the Law: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/coogan-knows-the-law/id1701005291
• Simple Concepts for Legal Consumers: https://drewlewis.law/category/blog/
• Descript: https://www.descript.com/
• Think About Client Journeys: https://www.thinkwithgoogle.com/consumer-insights/consumer-journey/micro-moments-understand-new-consumer-behavior/
• AI Assisted Workflow Tool: https://www.taskade.com/

Connect with Erik Olson:  

Website: https://arraylaw.com/

Show: https://arraylaw.com/managing-partners-podcast/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWsbJqhtLMS5wmWmXulpY2A

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamerikjolson/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/thisisarray

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thisisarray

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/array.digital/

Connect with Jocelyn Brumbaugh:  

Website: https://www.buildenpartners.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynbrumbaugh/

Connect with Jared Correia:  

Website: RedCaveLegal.com & Gideon.Legal

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredcorreia & linkedin.com/company/gideon-legal-software/

Twitter: twitter.com/RedCaveLegal & twitter.com/Gideon_Legal

Facebook: facebook.com/GideonLegal

Connect with Gyi Tsakalakis:  

Website: GyiTsakalakis.com & AttorneySync.com

Email: Gyi@AttorneySync.com

Show: legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/lunch-hour-legal-marketing/

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/gyitsakalakis

Twitter: twitter.com/gyitsakalakis

Facebook: facebook.com/gyitsakalakis

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Erik Olson, Jocelyn Brumbaugh, Jared Correia, and Gyi Tsakalakis discuss:

• The first step lawyers and law firms need to do before marketing themselves.  
• Positioning yourself as uniquely qualified to help your client.  
• Perspective client avatars and referral partners.  
• Pros and cons of specializing and finding your niche.  

Key Takeaways:

• Look at what you are already doing well now and capitalize on that first.  
• Bring in personal differentiation points in your marketing strategy to stand out from the crowd.  
• Positioning is what you want to be known for, it does not necessarily cover all that you do.  
• AI can be a tool, but there still needs to be a human component both before and after using the technology.  

"AI is a remarkable tool as a supportive assistive tool. I think about it just like we use Grammarly or a bunch of other stuff to help us write and publish and do research, and it is absolutely remarkable in those contexts. So short answer, yes, use it - just learn about it and learn how you can actually use it both effectively and ethically." —  Gyi Tsakalakis

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/  

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Lawmatics: http://lawmatics.com/bethatlawyer  

Episode References:  

ChatGPT for Legal Marketing Search: https://www.google.com/search?q=chatgpt+for+legal+marketing  

ChatGPT for Legal Marketing Article: https://www.attorneysync.com/blog/chatgpt-for-legal-marketing/  

Law Firm AI Article: https://thisisarray.com/law-firm-ai/

Connect with Erik Olson:  

Website: https://arraylaw.com/  

Show: https://arraylaw.com/managing-partners-podcast/  

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCWsbJqhtLMS5wmWmXulpY2A  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/iamerikjolson/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/thisisarray  

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thisisarray  

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/array.digital/  

Connect with Jocelyn Brumbaugh:  

Website: https://www.buildenpartners.com/  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jocelynbrumbaugh/  

Connect with Jared Correia:  

Website: RedCaveLegal.com & Gideon.Legal

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/jaredcorreia & linkedin.com/company/gideon-legal-software/

Twitter: twitter.com/RedCaveLegal & twitter.com/Gideon_Legal

Facebook: facebook.com/GideonLegal

Connect with Gyi Tsakalakis:  

Website: GyiTsakalakis.com & AttorneySync.com

Email: Gyi@AttorneySync.com

Show: legaltalknetwork.com/podcasts/lunch-hour-legal-marketing/

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/in/gyitsakalakis

Twitter: twitter.com/gyitsakalakis

Facebook: facebook.com/gyitsakalakis  

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.  

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Elizabeth Tresp discuss:

• How Elizabeth started her law firm (and manages her other businesses as well). 
• The secret of work-life balance. 
• Managing workload capacity and workload ability when hiring. 
• Understanding your core competencies and trying new things. 

Key Takeaways:

• The work-life balance will change throughout your career and will look different for every person. 
• Knowing when to hire is going to come with experience, but you need to be in tune with your employees, what is really happening, and if the work currently can support someone else. 
• Always be recruiting (even if you’re not currently hiring). You never know what conversation is going to be had and what that will turn into. 
• Be willing to take the risk on things you enjoy and make you feel good. You never know what you will learn or how your business will grow. 

"Don't be scared. Take the risk. Invest in yourself. Invest in your goal and what you have to offer, own it, and feel good about it." —  Elizabeth Tresp

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• 24 Months to Freedom by Brett Trembly - https://www.amazon.com/24-Months-Freedom-Staffing-Solutions/dp/1955242445

About Elizabeth Tresp: An attorney, business owner, investor, philanthropist, and mother, Elizabeth A. Tresp, JD, LL.M. founded her law firm, Tresp Law, APC in 2013 as a solo practitioner but quickly grew the firm to a successful mid-sized practice with several attorneys practicing under her direction. Elizabeth has a national client base consisting of thousands of clients from all walks of life in virtually every State.

In 2019, Elizabeth purchased the nationally-revered law firm of Day & Associates, Inc, which has practiced continuously in Solana Beach since 1992. Today, Elizabeth is the principal attorney and owner of both law firms, with offices in Solana Beach, California; San Diego, California; and Kemmerer, Wyoming. Elizabeth is a respected volunteer and major donor in the non-profit community, and an angel investor and small business owner in numerous ventures throughout the United States. Elizabeth also owns or is a partner in several businesses from professional services to retail and food service. Her unique perspective informs her law practice, enabling her to design the right legal solutions for every individual client’s needs.

For the past six consecutive years, Elizabeth has been awarded Super Lawyers Rising Star. Awarded by the San Diego Business Journal, Elizabeth is also an honoree of the 2021 and 2023 Women of Influence in Law and the 2022 Business Women of the Year. Elizabeth earned her Juris Doctor (JD) and Master of Laws in Taxation (LLM) at the University of San Diego School of Law.

Connect with Elizabeth Tresp:  

Website: https://www.tresplaw.com/

Website: https://www.trespday.com/

Website: https://www.normandysolutions.com/

Website: https://www.trespcs.com/

Phone: 858-248-2779

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/elizabethtresp/

Instagram: https://instagram.com/tresplawapc

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/trespday

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/normandysolutions

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/fossilfuelwy

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jeff Kimmel discuss:

• Understanding the business and the finances of the firm. 
• Referrals, delegation, and trust in your team. 
• Communicating clearly and confidently to your client about transitions in teams.
• Scaling down to scale up. 

Key Takeaways:

• Everyone has their own way of managing - find the way that works for you and the firm and do that. It can be fun and exciting if you are doing it in a way that is fresh and right for you.
• You can give clients reassurance that you are part of their case while also assuring them that your team is more than capable and will be handling the day-to-day. You do not have to do it all. 
• Answer internal firm questions not just with an answer, but with perspective as to how it affects the client and the case. 
• You do not need to accept every referral case to maintain relationships - sometimes declining the cases that don’t fit can earn you respect and better future cases. 

"Even if you don’t want to be the boss, it is so important for you, as a young lawyer, to understand that the firm you are working at is also a business." —  Jeff Kimmel

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• What Lawyers Don’t Know by Jeff Kimmel and Connie Henriquez - https://startlovinglife.com/whatlawyersdontknow/

About Jeff Kimmel: As Managing Partner of Salenger, Sack, Kimmel & Bavaro, a New York trial firm, Jeff Kimmel is a fierce business leader and attorney who has navigated the firm's rapid growth and elevated its status to one of the leading personal injury and medical malpractice law firms in New York. Jeff has been recognized in the industry as a leader. His business background and innovative thinking have helped him structure the firm for continued growth and success. 

Connect with Jeff Kimmel:  

Website: https://www.sskblaw.com/

Book: https://startlovinglife.com/whatlawyersdontknow/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jeffrey-m-kimmel-4782864/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jeffrey.kimmel.524

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/Salengersackkimmelbavaro/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Joe Tamburino discuss:

• Why lawyers struggle to build a book of business and a law practice. 
• Honing your skills and learning from others. 
• Communication, expectations, and building a great team. 
• Building media relationships. 

Key Takeaways:

• You have to have confidence in yourself, no matter what venture you go into in life. 
• Having a record of success will give you confidence and will really let you know what your job truly is. 
• You (or someone on your team) have to be available when business comes your way. 
• Everybody has an email - if you are looking to contact someone in the media, see who is in your area and reporting on your area of law, then reach out to them. 

"Things happen to make your business successful outside of work all the time." —  Joe Tamburino

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• The Law Entrepreneur - https://thelawentrepreneur.com/

About Joe Tamburino: Joe Tamburino is one of the most effective criminal defense attorneys in the Twin Cities and has been named a Minnesota “Super Lawyer” for the last two decades straight. His passion for excellence in criminal defense has led to an exclusive rating as a Minnesota State Bar Association Board Certified Legal Specialist in Criminal Law, a certification achieved by fewer than 3% of all attorneys. He has defended his clients effectively against a wide range of charges – from DWI and white collar crimes to child pornography, assault and homicide – and has personally tried over 100 jury trials. Joe has over 30 years of criminal experience. 

A graduate of New York University and the University of Minnesota Law School, Tamburino began his career as a public defender in the Anoka County Attorney’s Office. In 1997, he joined what would become Caplan & Tamburino Law Firm and has become a prominent and visible member of the Minnesota legal community. In 1998 he was named a Rising Star in Minnesota by Minnesota Law & Politics (Rising Stars are attorneys who have practiced for less than 10 years and are the age of 40 or younger). Since 2000, he has been named a Super Lawyer by Minnesota Law & Politics for twenty straight years. 

Joe Tamburino was nominated for an Emmy Award for his legal analysis on WCCO CBS TV throughout the trial of Derek Chauvin. He is a frequent legal analyst for CBS News, Court TV and Law and Crime Network. Tamburino has shared his expert legal analysis on high-profile cases and is a regular resource for media looking for a conversational understanding of current events with legal complexities. He also presents regularly to law schools and legal professional groups on a wide variety of criminal topics including: drinking & driving, alcohol-related accidents, homicides and criminal sexual conduct, campaign finance, international matters and first amendment (free speech) cases.

Tamburino is licensed in Minnesota and Wisconsin and the Federal Courts in Minnesota, Wisconsin, and North Dakota.

Connect with Joe Tamburino:  

Website: https://www.caplantamburino.com/

Email: jtamburino@caplanlaw.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joe-tamburino-78aa5b10/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/caplan-&-tamburino-law-firm-p-a-/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian Zapf discuss:

• Financial planning and metrics for law firms
• Importance of strategic investments and cost control
• Leveraging financial storytelling for decision-making
• Best practices for client and revenue management

Key Takeaways:

• In addition to revenue, law firm owners should track net income and cash flow, as well as specific KPIs like effective hourly rates and client lifetime value to fully understand profitability.
• Payroll should be about 40-45% of revenue; excessive payroll spending can prevent firm growth and profitability, especially if partners or staff are not contributing proportional value.
• Firms should aim to bill upfront where possible and maintain timely follow-ups on accounts receivable to reduce cash flow issues and avoid prolonged collection struggles.
• Undercharging for services can lead to rapid client acquisition but may indicate undervaluing; regular market assessments can ensure competitive and profitable pricing.

"The financial story goes beyond just having a financial report that your bookkeeper might give you each month. It’s more about understanding where you are right now in your business and where you want to go." —  Brian Zapf

Join Steve on November 15th for an exclusive 60-minute session focused on actionable strategies for business growth. Register now—seats are limited to the first 20 attorneys! Sign up here: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

The Tim Ferriss Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-tim-ferriss-show/id863897795

About Brian Zapf: Brian Zapf is the founder and Chief CFO of Flight Financial, a fractional CFO firm that helps law firm owners master their financials through clear financial storytelling and strategic financial management. With a focus on improving cash flow, profitability, and business growth, Brian uses his background in accounting and finance to help lawyers turn their numbers into actionable insights. He has helped his clients focus on what matters, improve their firm's performance, and reduce their stress.

Connect with Brian Zapf:  

Website: https://www.flight.financial/

Email: brian@flight.financial

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bdzapf/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Emily Witt discuss:

• How Emily’s Be That Lawyer tipping point started by rock climbing. 
• Top reasons lawyers are looking to move firms. 
• Advice for lawyers searching for a move. 
• One thing lawyers wish they knew. 

Key Takeaways:

• Many lawyers feel they are in the dark in regards to their career progression. 
• During the pandemic, we saw that many lawyers do enjoy being around their colleagues and getting feedback from their coworkers and senior lawyers. 
• Some lawyers may not need a book of business to move, but for most attorneys, it is a point of leverage and strength in a move. 
• When it comes time to make a move, many lawyers do not understand how big their book of business needs to be, even when they believe it is comfortable already. 

"Often lawyers are not aware in law school of what the whole legal landscape looks like, particularly where a lot of law schools give a very siloed view of the law firms that are out there. They might not be completely familiar with the fact that there are boutiques out there and that there are different ways to practice law, and how to get to those different junctures in your career." —  Emily Witt

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Pod Save The World - https://crooked.com/podcast-series/pod-save-the-world/

About Emily Witt: Emily Witt is a dedicated legal recruiter with over 20 years of experience, both on the law firm side and the agency side. She began her legal career at Wachtell, Lipton Rosen & Katz, where she was the Senior Recruiting Coordinator. Emily took a leap of faith in 2016 to work for a search firm and now places attorneys into roles in law firms and in-house companies. Her passion for women's advancement in tech and healthcare advocacy fueled her desire to specialize in those areas. Emily hosts a podcast, Beyond the Legal Lens, that helps open the door to jobs in tech and health law. She also has a platform, the Advocate's Mic, that highlights mission-driven attorneys who are creating impactful initiatives in their communities.  

Connect with Emily Witt:  

Website: https://www.beyondthelegallens.com/

Show: https://www.beyondthelegallens.com/podcast

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/emilywittslegalpath/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/emily.witt.104/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/profile.php?id=100085002114417

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/emilydwitt

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/beyondthelegallens

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jim Coogan discuss:

• How Jim’s childhood interest in medicine lead to his career in personal injury law. 
• Listen to what the questions really are. 
• Engaging your audience when you speak. 
• How AI is changing legal practice with communication clarity and efficiency. 

Key Takeaways:

• In law school, there’s a mentality that you want to speak like a lawyer. Once you’re working with clients, however, they are not (typically) lawyers and will better respond to you translating the law to what they need to know and understand. 
• No matter what area of law you are in, your area of law is going to be connected to other areas depending on your client and their situation. 
• As you practice, you will get better at appreciating and connecting with the audience you are speaking to. But it does take practice and analysis of what you said previously. 
• Your job is to interpret and build trust with your clients so they have a reason to believe what you’re saying as things get more complicated. 

"It’s just a matter of gauging who's listening to you, and whether what you're saying is making a difference and whether it makes sense in the first place." —  Jim Coogan

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Cautionary Tales - Tim Harford Podcast: https://timharford.com/articles/cautionarytales/

About Jim Coogan: Jim Coogan has been representing injured people his whole legal career. He is a partner at the law firm Coogan Gallagher in Park Ridge, Illinois. He is the host of the "Coogan Knows the Law" podcast. 

Connect with Jim Coogan:  

Website: https://cgtrial.com/

Podcast: https://feeds.captivate.fm/coogan-knows-the-law/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jecoogan/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/coogan-gallagher/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/james_coogan_

Twitter: https://twitter.com/coogangallagher

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/jim.coogan.1

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/coogangallagher/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/jimcoogan.atty

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/coogangallagher/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Justin Neagle discuss:

• Living a life of continuous improvement. 
• Scaling and improving through processes. 
• Documenting and delegating appropriately. 
• Missing processes in people, sales, organization, and technology. 

Key Takeaways:

• When you’re going through an identity shift, keep pushing forward. It will be strange at first, but things will settle when you push through your tipping point. 
• Being really smart does not mean you automatically have every skill set. 
• Without following a process (particularly in sales) you don’t know where it may have failed, or where you can improve. 
• Put the right people, in the right seat, and let them do the thing they’re good at. Giving them freedom and support, that is where scale will come. 

"If you’re not trying to up-skill your people, you're doing it wrong." —  Justin Neagle

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• The Daily Stoic Podcast - https://dailystoic.com/podcast/
• 10 Microsoft Power Automate Workflows Every Small Business Needs - https://spotmigration.com/blog/10-microsoft-power-automate-workflows-every-small-business-needs/

About Justin Neagle: Say hello to Justin Neagle, the Chief Storyteller at Spot Migration and Co-host of the Building Scale Podcast! 

Justin is one of the unstoppable leaders behind Spot Migration, a leading authority in the realm of IT and Cybersecurity Services. From strategy to implementation, Spot Migration's core focus is to create peace of mind by making technology reliable for their clients. Check out their site for more information - spotmigration.com 

Separately, Justin has the privilege of interviewing business leaders on his podcast, Building Scale. (buildingscale.net) With an in-depth understanding of storytelling and a purpose-driven mindset, he has been able to interview some amazing CEO and owners who have scaled their businesses with the use of three pillars of scaling - people, processes, and technology. 

Justin is a leader who loves seeing companies grow and learn. He strongly believes that the secret recipe for successful businesses is a culture that values its people and has a meaningful purpose. 

Justin has set an ambitious goal for himself. He’s on a mission to guide 1000 companies to find and use their unique core purposes. This way, they can have a positive impact on the world, and everyone involved can experience joy and fulfillment while increasing their earnings. Sounds pretty cool, right?

Connect with Justin Neagle:  

Website: https://spotmigration.com/  

Email: justinn@spotmigration.com

Podcast: https://buildingscale.net/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/justneagle/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/spot-migration/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/JustNeagle

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/justin.neagle/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/spotmigration

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Audrey Rubin discuss:

• Why law firms need to operate more like a business. 
• How to know what your clients really want. 
• 3 Tips for outstanding client services. 
• Asking for connections and introductions. 

Key Takeaways:

• There is a lot more to getting clients than just being a really good attorney. 
• Clients care about things like responsiveness, having a point of contact, understanding and predicting their bill, and even more. It’s more than about being a great lawyer at a reduced fee.
• Build relationships with your clients by working on a joint project with them - get to know them, get comfortable, and be willing to ask them questions about more than just their legal work. 
• There is power in having a team serving your clients, not just you alone. 

"The best lawyers, who retain and expand their business, issue report cards on themselves to the clients periodically. They ask the client how they are doing, not just on the legal work, but on other things." —  Audrey Rubin

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Getting Naked by Patrick Lencioni - https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Naked-Business-Shedding-Sabotage/dp/0787976393

About Audrey Rubin: Recognized and award-winning leader in profitability, productivity, and people for law firms and corporate law departments. Professor of "Law as a Changing Business" at the University of Illinois College of Law. Former VP and COO of the Global Law Department of Aon. There she was responsible for all budget, talent, strategic planning, process improvement, technology, and talent. 

Connect with Audrey Rubin:  

Website: https://www.rubinsolutions.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/audreyrubin/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Adam Kosloff discuss:

• Setting goals and creating habits.
• Building a process to create your content consistently.
• Repurposing your content creatively.
• Evaluating the platforms for content and content creation based on your audience.

Key Takeaways:

• Having unresolved tasks on your to-do list will continue to nag at your brain and keep you discontented.
• Not all content creation is right for every single person. Find what is in sync with your firm, your life, and your likes.
• You can use the hacks to get people to click or read, but you want to make sure you’re saying something of value and unique to you.
• Not all marketing has a direct ROI. Building a reputation as an expert in your space or creating content that can be repurposed and leveraged can be equally as important.

"The people who really succeed are the ones who like to have this as a habit, and can sustain it either me, or someone I delegated to do this." —  Adam Kosloff

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• The Secret to Success Podcast - https://www.s2spodcast.com/

About Adam Kosloff: I’m the founder of Virtuoso Content, a legal content agency I grew out of my own freelance career writing over 50,000 web pages and hundreds of books. I’ve also written for movies and television, including working as a staff writer for comedian Mel Brooks on Spaceballs: The Animated Series. On the side, I’ve written a popular blog on the keto diet, been a keynote speaker at nutrition science conferences, toured the world as a semi-pro a cappella singer, and defeated the former U.S. chess champion, all while raising three kids. 

Connect with Adam Kosloff:

Website: https://virtuosocontent.com/

Cell Phone: 818-601-6747

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/adam-kosloff-2346623/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/virtuoso-content/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Charlie Uniman, Colin Levy, and Maya Markovich discuss:

• Best questions to ask a legal tech vendor. 
• Choosing the right tech choice, not just the impulsive decision. 
• Looking for bottlenecks in your firm’s day-to-day productions and bringing your team into the changes. 
• Pros and cons of working with early stage legal tech startup firms. 
• Budgeting for legal tech. 

Key Takeaways:

• While you should ask questions about data security and customer support, you want to tailor your questions to what solution you are looking for. 
• Involve your team in the tech choices from the beginning. They are the ones who are going to be using it and you want to make sure it is the right fit for them. 
• Depending on your practice area, there may be different tech needs. However, all firms should look into good operations technology to help their firm run most efficiently. 
• Look at the use of the tools and what your needs are before setting your budget. 

"Once you’re comfortable with the tech you’re using, don’t be ashamed of it. Tell your clients about it, let them know that you’re tech forward, and let them know how they can benefit from your use of the tech." —  Charlie Uniman

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Connect with Charlie Uniman:  

Website: www.legaltechstartupfocus.com  

Email: Charlie@LegalTechStartUpFocus.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-uniman-2316b83/

Connect with Colin Levy:  

Website: https://www.colinslevy.com/

Website: https://www.malbek.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinslevy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Clevy_Law

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/clevylaw

Connect with Maya Markovich:  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mayamarkovich

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkovichMaya

Website: https://vilcap.com/

Website: https://justicetechassociation.org/  

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin, Charlie Uniman, Colin Levy, and Maya Markovich discuss:

• The disconnect between legal tech and lawyers. 
• Great online resources to stay ahead of legal tech. 
• The AI impact on the legal tech industry. 
• Best legal tech products for startups. 

Key Takeaways:

• To get over the hurdle of choosing tech and having people change the way they do business, make a good business case and make someone the champion for the change. 
• Ask yourself why you want to learn about legal tech and let that drive what you look for to avoid getting overwhelmed with the amount of information out there. 
• While prompting is currently a struggle for many with AI, it is not likely to remain a challenge for long as AI gets more intelligent. 
• Some tech isn’t marketed towards law, specifically, but can be a great tool for your law firm. Look at what is going to solve the problem you’re having. 

"Change management is fundamentally misunderstood in the legal industry. On the brightside, firms are starting to ask about it, but there is a radical misconception as to what that entails and the value it can provide." —  Maya Markovich

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Legal Technology Hub - https://www.legaltechnologyhub.com/
• Lawrina: https://lawrina.org/

Connect with Charlie Uniman:  

Website: www.legaltechstartupfocus.com  

Email: Charlie@LegalTechStartUpFocus.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/charles-uniman-2316b83/

Connect with Colin Levy:  

Website: https://www.colinslevy.com/

Website: https://www.malbek.io/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/colinslevy/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Clevy_Law

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/clevylaw

Connect with Maya Markovich:  

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/mayamarkovich

Twitter: https://twitter.com/MarkovichMaya

Website: https://vilcap.com/

Website: https://justicetechassociation.org/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Hugo Gomez discuss:

• Niche down on what you know. 
• Finding your angle to stand out from the others in your field. 
• Working with outside partners to truly grow and scale your business. 
• Why lawyers should be marketing to the Spanish-speaking communities around them. 

Key Takeaways:

• You cannot please everyone - if you niche into a very specific area, you will be able to find success and give more buy-in to your clients. 
• English-only speakers are in decline according to the latest census. 
• Working with a marketing company that has cultural experience in your target market is key for getting the best results and content to that audience. 
• Multicultural marketing needs to be done from the ground up - what might work for one culture is not usually going to work for another culture. 

"What we found is that Spanish speakers when they're making a decision to hire an attorney, what they're looking for is does the firm have bilingual staff. Generally speaking, attorneys don't speak Spanish, and that's okay. All we need to do is just be honest with the consumer and say, this firm as the best bilingual staff you can talk to you regarding your and your auto accident injury." —  Hugo Gomez

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References:

• All-In: https://www.allinpodcast.co/

About Hugo Gomez: Hugo E. Gomez is the founder of Abogados NOW, a national Spanish marketing agency that helps attorneys advertise to underrepresented communities. With a mission to forge greater awareness of Spanish-speaking communities, Hugo and his team create high-performing and cost-effective Spanish digital marketing campaigns to help attorneys grow their firms.

Connect with Hugo Gomez:  

Website: https://www.abogadosnow.com/

Email: hugo@abogadosnow.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bilingualmarketing/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/abogados-now/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brian Glass discuss:

• Focusing on the client experience.
• Partnering with family in your law firm.
• Highest and best use of lawyers’ time for law firm success.
• The power of coopetition and accountability.

Key Takeaways:

• What gets in the way of lawyer business success is thinking the lawyer needs to be in the middle of everything in their practice.
• Identify and write down everything that is important to you - then reverse engineer your firm based on that criteria.
• Execute the good ideas and lessons learned from your peer groups. Having forced external accountability can help you to actually accomplish those goals.
• Give more power to your lieutenant - give them reins and responsibility, but also give them coaching and power to make decisions. You cannot do it all, especially if you are wanting to scale and grow.

"If you have a good enough team, and you have a large enough vision, you can give them these projects to go and run with. I don't have to do it. I just have to have a big enough vision and create a fun enough and intellectually exciting enough place to work that attracts the kind of person that can go and execute on that for me." —  Brian Glass

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Vivid Vision by Cameron Herold - https://www.amazon.com/Vivid-Vision-Remarkable-Aligning-Business/dp/161961877X
• My First Million: https://www.mfmpod.com/

About Brian Glass: Brian Glass is a personal injury lawyer in Fairfax, Virginia. After a decade of practicing law across town from his dad, he joined Ben Glass Law in 2019 to run the auto accident section of the practice. 

Brian’s greatest hits as a lawyer include a $3.4M medical malpractice verdict (2019), the record-setting settlement of a minor’s wrongful death case in Virginia ($5.5M in 2020), and the largest auto accident verdict in the state in 2022. ($3.4M in compensatory damages and $1M in punitive damages). He is highly skilled at distilling complex problems into simple, understandable solutions. 

Brian runs Time Freedom for Lawyers, a podcast dedicated to teaching other lawyers and high-income professionals how to win back some of their time by running more efficient businesses, investing in real estate, and crafting the vision of their own perfect life. 

Brian’s perfect life includes coaching his three boys in soccer, baseball, and whatever other athletic endeavor they want to pursue; travelling the world with his wife of 13 years; and competing in endurance events. Brian is a finisher of the Umstead 100 Mile Endurance Race, the Laurel Highlands 71 Miler, and about two dozen other ultramarathons. Lately, parenting has cut short his training timeline and he focuses on Crossfit and Spartan races, with a 2023 goal of traveling to Sparta, Greece to compete in the Spartan Race World Championships. 

Connect with Brian Glass:  

Website: https://greatlegalmarketing.com/

Website: https://benglasslaw.com/

Show: https://www.timefreedompod.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/fairfaxpersonalinjury/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/brianglassesq/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/greatlegalmarketing/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jonathan Hawkins discuss:

• Having a destination in mind for your career and business. 
• Shared vision for building a multi-attorney law firm. 
• Having a written agreement in a partnership. 
• The right way to build a partnership in a law firm. 

Key Takeaways:

• When building a partnership, you want to have different skill sets for the best opportunities for success. 
• Partnering with your best friend may not be the best idea - if the partnership falls apart, your friendship might follow. 
• In a partnership, you cannot always win - it requires giving, communication, and compromise. 
• There are many reasons why a partnership might fall apart - having an exit plan and written agreements can prevent a lot of disagreement and potential stress in the future. 

"You can't forget, both of you and the firm have an obligation to the clients. That is the paramount in responsibility of everybody - to make sure the client's interests come first." —  Jonathan Hawkins

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• How I Built This - https://www.npr.org/series/490248027/how-i-built-this

About Jonathan Hawkins: Jonathan Hawkins is a business lawyer for lawyers. He serves as Outside General Counsel to law firms and helps attorneys and law firm owners in starting law firms, law firm structuring, partnership agreements, lateral moves, breakups and dissolutions, and succession planning. 

Connect with Jonathan Hawkins:  

Website: https://www.yourlawfirmgc.com/

Email: jhawkins@yourlawfirmgc.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jonathan-hawkins-135147/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Scott Love discuss:

• The value of finding a specialized niche in legal recruiting
• Strategies for building resilience in a challenging field
• Techniques for effectively positioning oneself as a trusted expert
• The importance of focusing efforts to maximize productivity and impact

Key Takeaways:

• Focusing exclusively on corporate, finance, and private equity law clients allowed Scott to build deeper client relationships and better anticipate client needs.
• Analyzing hiring and attrition data from law firms helps identify ideal clients whose needs align well with a specialized niche, enhancing recruitment effectiveness.
• Narrowing service to a limited number of retained clients at a time can improve service outcomes by allowing more dedicated and strategic client development.
• Success in niche recruiting relies on building a brand distinct from competitors, using thought leadership, targeted marketing, and leveraging unique personal strengths to attract high-value clients.

"If you're dealing with sophisticated people, you really need to find not just uniqueness but distinction. And if you don’t have it, you can build it through thought leadership." —  Scott Love

Join Steve on November 15th for an exclusive 60-minute session focused on actionable strategies for business growth. Register now—seats are limited to the first 20 attorneys! Sign up here: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

Pitch Anything: An Innovative Method for Presenting, Persuading, and Winning the Deal by Oren Klaff: https://www.amazon.com/Pitch-Anything-Innovative-Presenting-Persuading/dp/0071752854

About Scott Love: Scott Love is the founder of The Attorney Search Group, a legal recruiting firm. His practice focuses on partner transitions and law firm mergers, with specialized expertise in recruiting for global law firms in the areas of corporate, finance, private equity, and related practices.

Connect with Scott Love:  

Website: https://attorneysearchgroup.com/

Show: The Rainmaking Podcast: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-rainmaking-podcast/id318840415

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/scotttlove/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Ariana Tadler discuss:

• How your business card can play into your personal and professional brand. 
• Top challenges for lawyers today. 
• The pros and cons of multiple methods of communication. 
• The 3 C’s of professionalism. 

Key Takeaways:

• Have a business card with a QR code. It helps to communicate and connect with more people and keeps you memorable. 
• Time management is one of the biggest challenges for lawyers today. In today’s world, the sense of attention people have is much shorter than before due to devices and constant notifications. But time management is critical for lawyers. 
• It is not rude to write down notes from meetings about follow-up things or to-do items. You want to make sure to be able to follow through with anything that was talked about in the meeting. 
• Early is on time. Being on time (early) to meetings is the easiest way to begin to show professionalism. Being late to meetings, especially without apology or reason, will chip away at your credibility. 

"Your credibility is the utmost important factor in the relationship before the court and with your client." —  Ariana Tadler

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Leadership and Self-Deception: Getting Out of the Box by the Arbinger Institute - https://www.amazon.com/Leadership-Self-Deception-Getting-Out-Box/dp/1576759776
• Getting Things Done: The Art of Stress-Free Productivity by David Allen - https://www.amazon.com/Getting-Things-Done-Stress-Free-Productivity/dp/0142000280

About Ariana Tadler: Ariana J. Tadler is the Founding Partner of Tadler Law LLP, a WBENC certified women-owned law firm that offers class action, complex and commercial B2B litigation, legal counseling, and e-Discovery services. A nationally recognized lawyer, entrepreneur, and keynote speaker, Ariana J. Tadler is tenacious and gracious. Described as the consummate professional, Ariana knows how to own a room - she opens doors and gains access - if she is unable to provide services directly, she connects people with skilled strategic partners.

Connect with Ariana Tadler:  

Website: https://www.tadlerlaw.com/

Email: atadler@tadlerlaw.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/arianatadler/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/tadler-law/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/tadlerlaw/

Instagram: https://instagram.com/arianatadler

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/tadlerlaw/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Alan Crone discuss:

• Gaining focus and clarity in what you find the most important. 
• Transitioning clients to other lawyers in your firm, not just seeking you as the brand. 
• Putting great systems in place within your firm. 
• Delegating for success, not for frustration. 

Key Takeaways:

• As long as you work hard, and work smart, you can do whatever you put your mind to. 
• You must run your law firm like a business, because it is one. 
• Invest money in your people and train, train, train. 
• You can’t always hire for potential, sometimes you have to hire for skill. And hire someone who fits the culture, not just has the skills. 

"Delegation is the most sincere act of humility - to be able to delegate something to someone else and say that I don’t have to do it in order for it to be successful. Now you’re going to be successful, and someone else is going to be successful. It’s an exponential win-win." —  Alan Crone

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Sign up for the next BE THAT LAWYER: Marketing Mavericks - September 28th, 2023 - https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/
• Ask Alan! The Podcast: https://cronelawfirmplc.com/resources/ask-alan/

About Alan Crone: Alan G. Crone is an Employment Law Attorney, CEO/Founder of The Crone Law Firm, Author of “The Law at Work: A Legal Playbook For Executives and Professionals” (Feb 2023), Ask Alan! Podcast Host and Speaker. Crone’s employment law firm team is committed to helping employees, executives, and entrepreneurs resolve workplace disputes, which may include issues between employers and employees, intellectual property disputes and/or other commercial issues. His new book reflects Crone’s approach when working with clients, which is, “I’d rather solve your problem than win your lawsuit.” https://cronelawfirmplc.com/

Connect with Alan Crone:  

Website: https://cronelawfirmplc.com/

Email: acrone@cronelawfirmplc.com

Book: https://cronelawfirmplc.com/the-law-at-work/

Ask Alan! The Podcast: https://cronelawfirmplc.com/resources/ask-alan/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/alancronememphislawyer/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/alan.crone.7/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thecronelawfirm/  

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/alan_crone/

YouTube: https://www.youtube.com/channel/UCS8rpvoDf5SN5z_DcF5Sb1Q

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Kevin Daisey discuss:

• Crafting your product around your client, not the other way around.
• Getting unstuck from making the same mistakes. 
• How a podcast can help your marketing, no matter what field you’re in. 
• The secret about podcasting for lawyers. 

Key Takeaways:

• Everything comes back to strategy. Results and growth over time always start with strategy. 
• You need to be focused, have a plan, give your marketing strategies time, and have someone who is tracking the KPIs from it. Without the data, you don’t know how to handle it, both good and bad. 
• You can make anything successful if you stick to it and do it properly. 
• Hosting a podcast is less work than you think if you have a great team behind you. You become a talk show host of your own, get the marketing, and get great content to repurpose. 

"It's repurposing! You and me are recording this now. We can take this and make an article out of it. We can take clips, we can do video versions, we can do audio clips - there's so many things you can do to disperse it, and we did this recording one time." —  Kevin Daisey

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Sign up for the next BE THAT LAWYER: Marketing Mavericks - September 28th, 2023 - https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/
• The Game with Alex Hormozi
• $100M Leads by Alex Hormozi

About Kevin Daisey: Kevin Daisey is a digital marketer & entrepreneur. He is the founder & CMO of Array Digital, a law firm marketing agency, and the host of The Managing Partners Podcast. 

Connect with Kevin Daisey:  

Website: https://thisisarray.com/

Show: https://thisisarray.com/managing-partners-podcast/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/kevindaisey/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/arraydigital/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kevinldaisey/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/kevindaisey/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Julie Migliacci discuss:

• How COVID shifted the landscape for speakers. 
• Mistakes people make with virtual events. 
• Content flow even beyond the event. 
• Livestreaming your events to your social pages. 

Key Takeaways:

• The #1 reason people attend a speaking event is to network. 
• Not every event should be in person. Not every event should be virtual. Not every event should be hybrid. Understand what you want from your speaking engagement and look at how it works best for you and your audience. 
• Every 30 minutes, do something different to avoid the audience hitting their burnout points. 
• Choose the right technology for your event. There are different levels of platforms, such as Zoom, that will fit the needs of your audience and your event. 

"Nobody wants to sit through an hour-long lecture anymore. Attendees want more, and they mostly want to connect with people. The number one reason people attend a hybrid or virtual event is to network. And it's also the number one thing that gets cut when you're in the planning process." —  Julie Migliacci

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Sign up for the next BE THAT LAWYER: Marketing Mavericks - September 28th, 2023 - https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/
• ProVisors: https://www.provisors.com/
• Never Lose a Customer Again by Joey Coleman

About Julie Migliacci: Julie Migliacci has over 17 years of high-touch customer service and event planning under her belt. There isn’t an event type she hasn’t planned before, from large celebrity fundraisers, virtual conferences, and premier cooking shows. She is always up for a new challenge and creating unique experiences for clients and their guests. Hailing from France, Julie has lived in 4 countries and considers herself a global citizen. She currently resides in Boston, MA, and is always looking for an opportunity to jump on a plane to do something new. If left on a deserted island, Julie would bring her sourdough starter (named Steve) and her cats. 

Connect with Julie Migliacci:  

Website: https://revent.consulting/

Email: julie@revent.consulting

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/julie-migliacci-revent/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/revent-consulting-llc/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/reventconsulting2020/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/reventconsulting2020/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Andrew Biren discuss:

• Learning how to focus and disconnect as needed.
• Putting your energy into the right things.
• Borrowing good ideas from others that fit within your firm.
• Key tips on relationship building.

Key Takeaways:

• It is hard to connect if you are only talking about yourself. Let the other person have space in the conversation.
• Understand your selling point and stick to it.
• Check-in with your client. Make sure they, proactively, know that you are aware of them and their situation.
• You cannot communicate everything by email or over the phone, both in networking and in client relations.

"I like to meet people. I like to hear their stories, whether it be a referral lawyer, a networking partner, or even a client. I like learning about different types of people. It's me getting to connect with somebody, and that's the number one thing for me with networking, forming relationships, and forming a bond." —  Andrew Biren

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Episode References: 

• Sign up for the next BE THAT LAWYER: Marketing Mavericks - September 28th, 2023 - https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/
• The Ryen Russillo Podcast - https://www.theringer.com/ryen-russillo-podcast

About Andrew Biren: Andrew “Drew” Biren knew that he was going to be a trial lawyer ever since he was five, when he attended his first jury trial and saw his father in action. From that point forward, he knew that his life’s work would be spent advocating for seriously injured men and women – just like his dad. Drew first started working at Biren Law Group as a file clerk at the tender age of 14. Since then, he has done almost every job imaginable. You name it and Drew has done it. The extensive experience Drew amassed at such an early age has proven to be invaluable, as he now works as a lawyer, fulfilling his dream of helping accident victims obtain justice. He received his bachelor's degree from the University of Colorado, his law degree at Southwestern Law School, and has since been admitted to the State Bar of California. Drew’s passions include his wife, Melissa, his two young daughters, his dogs, and sports. 

Connect with Andrew Biren: 

Website: https://biren.com/

Email: abiren@biren.com

Phone: 310-922-4979

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/andrew-biren-33584040/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/birenlawgroup/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/BirenLawGroup/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Brett Trembly discuss:

• Scheduling time off, not dropping agreements with yourself. 
• The need to delegate to grow your firm. 
• Tracking ALL of your time (not just the billable time). 
• Getting over the mental minutia and the fear of hiring. 

Key Takeaways:

• You are losing money every time you do a $10 job that you can pay someone else for when you charge way more than that per hour. 
• Hiring a good executive assistant will free up enough time for you to double your output and double your income. 
• Your first hire should be someone to delegate to so you can protect your time as a law firm owner and allow you to focus on what only you can do (and what you love to do). 
• When you hire, you can use those employees to help build your training material and process and procedure manuals. But you need the hands-on deck before you can build those SOPs.

"You absolutely need to protect your time as the law firm owner more than anything else." —  Brett Trembly

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Episode References: 

• Sign up for the next BE THAT LAWYER: Marketing Mavericks - September 28th, 2023 - https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/
• How I Built This with Guy Raz - https://wondery.com/shows/how-i-built-this/

About Brett Trembly: 

Lawyer / Entrepreneur / Author / Delegation Expert 

4 time Inc. 5000 Honoree (#67 in 2022 & 2 companies on the ranking) 

Published Author: The Danger Zones 

Adjunct professor Miami Law 

40 employee team Trembly Law (12 attorneys) 

150+ employee team Get Staffed Up

Connect with Brett Trembly:  

Website: https://getstaffedup.com/fretzin  

Book: http://24monthstofreedom.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/bretttrembly/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/getstaffedup/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/btrembly

Twitter: https://twitter.com/Getstaffedup1

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/groups/l3community/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/getstaffedup/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Heidi Brown discuss:

• Overcoming stress, fear, and anxiety. 
• Introversion, shyness, and social anxiety…and how they are not the same. 
• Learning to speak for what you need for processing and energy replenishment. 
• Flourishing in your character strengths. 

Key Takeaways:

• Introverts process internally, extroverts process externally. Neither is better, neither is more engaged, neither is a better student or employee, they just think differently. 
• Authentically embrace who you are. You do not need to pretend to be someone else or a different personality type in order to do your job effectively and brilliantly. 
• If you have anxiety around performances, you may be overpreparing. Consider tweaking your preparation process to figure out what works for you without getting in your own way. 
• Find the things that energize and revitalize you and focus on those as much as you can. 

"What it means to flourish as a human being, or as a lawyer, is to set up systems that help you function well, even when you hit stress and anxiety. It's not pretending stress, anxiety, and fear don't exist, but instead knowing that our jobs are hard and our lives are hard we're going to encounter them." —  Heidi Brown

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• VIA Character Strengths Survey - https://www.viacharacter.org/
• Flow by Mihaly Csikszentmihalyi - https://www.amazon.com/Flow-Psychology-Experience-Perennial-Classics/dp/0061339202

About Heidi Brown: Professor Heidi K. Brown is a graduate of The University of Virginia School of Law, Associate Dean for Upper-Level Writing at New York Law School, and a former litigator in the construction industry. Heidi is the author of three books about well-being for law students and lawyers, including The Introverted Lawyer, Untangling Fear in Lawyering, and The Flourishing Lawyer: A Multi-Dimensional Approach to Performance and Well-Being. In 2021, Heidi earned a master’s degree in Applied Positive Psychology from the University of Pennsylvania. She is the 2023 Recipient of the Award for Outstanding Contributions to Well-Being in Legal Education from the Association of American Law Schools’ (AALS) Section on Balance and Well-Being in Legal Education. Building on a foundation of thirty years of experience in legal practice and academia, Heidi champions the importance of openly discussing stressors, anxieties, and fears in lawyering, and helping quiet and anxious law students and lawyers tap into individual strengths to become profoundly effective advocates—in their authentic voices. Heidi resides in New York City. She loves writing books, traveling solo internationally, taking boxing lessons, and jumping up-and-down at U2 concerts around the world. Heidi’s website is TheFlourishingLawyer.org. 

Connect with Heidi Brown:  

Website: https://www.theflourishinglawyer.org/

Email: heidi@theintrovertedlawyer.com

Book: https://www.theintrovertedlawyer.com/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/theintrovertedlawyerbook/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/introvertlawyer

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/introvertedlawyer/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/theflourishinglawyer

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jodie Zerega discuss:

• Why many lawyers are unhappy with their current situations. 
• How longevity can assist in your job search. 
• The importance of having a book of business (and how it plays with the business of running a law firm). 
• Continue learning, find your niche, become the expert. 

Key Takeaways:

• While longevity at a firm is not as important as it used to be, law firms do still want to see that a lawyer gave the firm a chance and had a chance to be valuable within the firm. 
• You need to have a portable book of business. It is important to know what your objectives are going to be at your new firm. 
• Building a book of business takes consistent effort over time. Start early in your career (and if you didn’t, start today). 
• Network both within and outside of your law firm. You never know where someone is going to be in five years. 

"From a partner perspective, you have to have a portable book of business. Right now, I'm seeing a minimum of $750K. One thing that attorneys have a hard time understanding is salary - and they bring you over it as a lateral partner, they have a formulaic process that they use to calculate your salary, and it's usually a third, a third, a third." —  Jodie Zerega

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Get Staffed Up: https://getstaffedup.com/bethatlawyer/

Overture: https://overture.law/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Episode References: 

• Traction by Gino Wickman

About Jodie Zerega: Jodie Zerega is a highly experienced legal recruiter and founder of Zerega Consulting, a recruiting firm that specializes in placing attorneys in law firms, corporations, and non-profit organizations. With over 20 years of experience in legal recruiting, Jodie has worked with a diverse range of clients, including private start-ups to multi-national publicly traded companies. She is an expert in legal hiring trends, AI in attorney hiring, legal recruiter benefits, job search technology, social media and hiring, and in-house legal recruiting.

Jodie's expertise in legal recruiting and her extensive experience make her an ideal guest for podcasts with audiences of attorneys, paralegals, law firm administrators, and managing partners. She can provide valuable insights and practical tips to help listeners navigate the complex legal hiring landscape and stay ahead of the curve in their job search. With the recent launch of the Attorney Jobs app, Jodie can also share a unique perspective on how technology is shaping the legal job market and offer advice on how attorneys can use technology to their advantage.

Connect with Jodie Zerega:  

Website: https://www.zeregaconsulting.com/

Attorney Jobs App: https://www.zeregaconsulting.com/attorney-jobs

Email: jzerega@zeregaconsulting.com

Phone: 404-660-3414

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/jodie-zerega-8265586/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/zerega-consulting-legal-recruiting/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/zeregaconsulting/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Joan Butler discuss:

• Looking at what is working and focusing on that. 
• Why so many people are unsatisfied with their life. 
• The Power Life Script. 
• The paradigm shifts in our lives. 

Key Takeaways:

• The more we focus on the things that are broken and are not working, the more things will continue to be dysfunctional. 
• People need to take time to listen to what they truly love and what is inside, not what anyone else is saying to them. 
• Enacting changes comes through making decisions. 
• The content of our life is the curriculum of our evolution. 

"Where our attention goes, energy flows. If we have an intention to have this kind of life, and we're over here, but our attention and is on the problem, where's the energy going to flow? It's going to flow more towards the problem." —  Joan Butler

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Overture: https://overture.law/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Goal-Free Living: How to Have the Life You Want NOW! By Stephen M. Shapiro - https://www.amazon.com/Goal-Free-Living-Have-Life-Want/dp/0471772801
• School of Greatness Podcast - https://lewishowes.com/sogpodcast/

About Joan Butler: Joan Butler is a coach and consultant who has supported mid-life individuals going through challenging times professionally and personally. She helps them bridge the gap from where they are to where they would love to be in their life. Her refreshing approach as a coach and consultant leverages humor to help others learn how to think and feel differently, breaking down barriers so that they can cultivate more confidence, new vision, happiness, and joy in their life.

Connect with Joan Butler:  

Website: https://relationshipcenterforchange.com/

Email: joan@rcchange.com

Phone: 707-769-1215

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/joan-menke-ma-17628812/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/rcforchange

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/JoanMenkeButler

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/joanmenkebutler

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Marcia Wasserman discuss:

• Challenges law firms are facing today that they’ve never had to before. 
• Managing generational differences to the benefit of both parties. 
• Where to start when everything seems to be going sideways. 
• The benefit of a peer advisory group. 

Key Takeaways:

• Managing expectations for both the law firm managers and the younger lawyers is key to making sure everything is being accomplished at the right profitability. 
• Clients are also getting younger, not just new attorneys. Understanding how the younger generations think can be crucial for your law firm success. 
• It doesn’t take a certain personality to be a leader - it takes listening skills, vulnerability, and transparency to your vision. 
• If you delegate more, you will be more effective in what you are best at. 

"It's getting the lawyers who manage the firms to understand that things have changed and they are not able to do it the way they've always done it." —  Marcia Wasserman

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Overture: https://overture.law/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Measure What Matters by John Doerr - https://www.amazon.com/Measure-What-Matters-Google-Foundation/dp/0525536221
• ProVisors - https://provisors.com/

About Marcia Wasserman: Marcia Watson Wasserman is the Founder and President of Comprehensive Management Solutions, Inc., which provides “C.O.O. to Go”™ law practice management consulting services to boutique and midsize law firms. Her expertise includes operational management reviews; management and leadership development and training; succession planning; strategic planning; retreat facilitation; law firm start-ups and mergers. Marcia serves as a coach, mentor, and accountability partner to Managing Partners, Attorneys, and Legal Administrators. Marcia also leads multiple law firm Managing Partners’ and Legal Administrators’ Roundtables, focused on thought leadership and sharing best practices. She is a Fellow in the College of Law Practice Management and the author of 2 books published by the ABA. 

Connect with Marcia Wasserman:  

Website: https://www.comprehensivemgmt.com/

Email: mwasserman@comprehensivemgmt.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/marciawwasserman/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Michael Educate discuss:

• Effective habits for business development and client relationships
• Relationship-driven networking and sustained client loyalty
• The impact of mentorship and personal values on professional growth
• The importance of active listening and sales-free selling techniques

Key Takeaways:

• Making business development a regular, ingrained part of the daily routine is essential for long-term success and should not be left as an “end-of-day” task.
• Building a client relationship based on trust and a commitment to solving client issues, even outside one’s specific expertise, can strengthen loyalty and ensure clients return.
• Personal experiences and relationships, such as advice from family, shape and inform approaches to client interactions, stressing genuine investment in client outcomes.
• Developing an initial personal network—family, friends, and peers—early on can lay a foundation for a robust client base, emphasizing relationship depth over formal networking.

"People want to work with people that they respect and admire and people they feel like ‘get it’… it’s not just about the case in front of you. It's not just about the client relationship in front of you. It's making that person's life that much easier." —  Michael Educate

Join Steve on November 15th for an exclusive 60-minute session focused on actionable strategies for business growth. Register now—seats are limited to the first 20 attorneys! Sign up here: https://www.fretzin.com/blog/category/events/

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Rankings.io: https://rankings.io/

Rainmakers Roundtable: https://www.fretzin.com/lawyer-coaching-and-training/peer-advisory-groups/

Episode References: 

The Par Train - A Mental Golf Show: https://podcasts.apple.com/us/podcast/the-par-train-a-mental-golf-show/id1136003885

About Michael Educate: Michael Educate is a trial lawyer engaged in all aspects of dispute resolution and strategic counseling, both in commercial litigation and in tax controversy matters. He has experience across various legal areas and industries for clients of all sizes, from small, privately held businesses to multinational enterprises, and particularly focuses his practice on representing clients in the financial industry as well as motor vehicle manufacturers and distributors. Mike is also frequently called upon to handle disputes involving asset and business valuations and complex damages claims.

Connect with Michael Educate:  

Website: https://www.bfkn.com/people/michaeleducate

Email: michael.educate@bfkn.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/michaeleducate/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Darren Wurz discuss:

• Learning skills outside of just the law. 
• Niche down to stand out in the crowd. 
• Top struggles lawyers have around money. 
• Making the changes that will make the biggest difference in the future. 

Key Takeaways:

• Awareness of your money is the first step. You have to know where it is going in order to understand what is happening.
• In a law firm, money is often fluctuating. Understanding your cash flow is key to understanding your overall financial situation. 
• You have to know where you are going with an inspiring vision in order to know how much you need to save to get there. Few people are inspired by saving money. 
• You want to make your financial plans somewhat realistic. If you’re in a situation that is completely unsustainable (maybe due to lifestyle creep) you may have to make dramatic changes to get back to your goals. 

"It's tough to build a business. It is tough to launch out on your own. But the cool thing about it is if you put in the hard work and determination, if you learn the skills you need to learn, you can build the business that you want." —  Darren Wurz

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Overture: https://overture.law/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

About Darren Wurz: Darren Wurz is a respected authority on retirement planning for law firm owners, as well as a published author and dynamic public speaker. As an experienced financial planner, Darren specializes in helping law firm owners more effectively manage their personal finances and investments, and plan for retirement and succession. He is the author of *[The Lawyer Millionaire: The Complete Guide for Attorneys on Maximizing Wealth, Minimizing Taxes, and Retiring with Confidence](https://www.americanbar.org/products/inv/book/423608863/)*, published by the American Bar Association. He is also the host of The Lawyer Millionaire Podcast. Darren has been featured on radio, television, podcasts, and as a guest speaker at bar associations, law firms, and legal organizations across the country. 

After a brief career in education, Darren joined his dad and brother as a fee-only financial advisor and co-owner of Wurz Financial Services. As a small business owner himself, he understands the challenges law firm owners face. Over the past 8 years, Darren has developed an expertise in helping law firm owners master their money and achieve financial independence through his unique financial planning process for law firm owners—The Lawyer Millionaire™ Method. Darren holds a CERTIFIED FINANCIAL PLANNER™ designation and earned his master’s degree in financial planning from Golden Gate University. Darren is a member of the American Bar Association and the Financial Planning Association. He currently works and resides in the Toledo, OH, area but works remotely with clients in all 50 states. To learn more about Darren and his work, please visit TheLawyerMillionaire.com or connect with him on LinkedIn.

Connect with Darren Wurz:  

Website: https://wurzfinancialservices.com/

Book: https://wurzfinancialservices.com/the-lawyer-millionaire-the-book/

Podcast: https://wurzfinancialservices.com/category/podcasts/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/darren-p-wurz/

Twitter: https://twitter.com/wurzfinancial

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/thelawyermillionaire

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/thelawyermillionaire/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Whitney Harper discuss:

• Why so many law firms still use the billable hour. 
• Deliverables-based billing. 
• Getting clear about what your deliverables are. 
• Building the playbooks to increase your profitability. 

Key Takeaways:

• Most tech for lawyers are based on hourly billing, which makes it difficult for those wishing to switch without creating new software. 
• Hourly billing can make you adversarial to your clients, and adversarial to yourself and your mental health. 
• Understanding what you are looking for (more money, more time, etc.) then you can look at more ways to make yourself efficient in delivering those products. 
• If you have agreed on the price at the front end, you are less likely to have a collection issue. 

"When you bill by the hour, there's a kind of an upper limit on what you can reasonably say an hourly rate is. There's also an aspect of it, that's a mental health issue - as a lawyer, if I only can win by burning more of the midnight oil, there's a level of exhaustion, and you feel like you're playing the game that you can't win." —  Whitney Harper

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Overture: https://overture.law/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• The Taboo Surrounding Sales in Legal - https://www.fretzin.com/events
• The Go-Giver by Bob Burg - https://thegogiver.com/

About Whitney Harper: Whitney Harper is a seasoned practicing lawyer, and the co-founder of ADVOS Pro, a business that helps law firms break up with the billable hour method and begin measuring what matters - value, expertise, and results. Her practice, ADVOS legal, has leveraged the ADVOS Pro P3 Method and [A]OS platform for nearly a decade, building a successful, healthy, and highly profitable practice that delivers sophisticated, strategic legal counsel to clients who are raving fans.

Connect with Whitney Harper:  

Website: https://www.advospro.com/

Email: whitney@advospro.com

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/in/whitneycharper/

LinkedIn: https://www.linkedin.com/company/advos-pro/

Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/ADVOSPro

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/whit_onthewater/

Instagram: https://www.instagram.com/advospro/

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it. 

In this episode, Steve Fretzin and Jason Ciment discuss:

• Building and maintaining relationships. 
• Going solo versus having a partnership. 
• Outsourcing components of your business that were previously not possible to outsource. 
• Top tips to ensure a successful partnership. 

Key Takeaways:

• You never know what relationships are going to lead to your next game-changing relationship. 
• Marketing is great, but business development will lead to your best referrals and customers. 
• Manage your expectations in the partnership. Both sides will have expectations, both sides will be negotiating and need to give in a little bit. But make sure to have your agreements and expectations understood before going into business together. 
• If you have the right relationships with your vendors and referral sources, they can assist as you are going out on your own or with your partner. 

"You have to have a vision for what you’re trying to build together." —  Jason Ciment

Get a free copy of Steve’s book “Sales-Free Selling” here: www.fretzin.com/sales-free-selling

Thank you to our Sponsors!

Overture: https://overture.law/

Moneypenny: https://www.moneypenny.com/us/

Get Visible: https://www.getvisible.com/

Episode References: 

• Howard Stern: https://www.siriusxm.com/talk/howard-stern

Connect with Jason Ciment:  

Website: GetVisible.com & JasonCiment.com

LinkedIn: linkedin.com/company/get-visible & linkedin.com/in/jasonciment

Twitter: twitter.com/GetVisibleMktg & twitter.com/jasonciment

Facebook: facebook.com/GetVisibleMarketing

Book: I Need More Clients: Digital Marketing Strategies That Grow Your Business: amazon.com/Need-More-Clients-Marketing-Strategies/dp/1537108352

Connect with Steve Fretzin:

LinkedIn: Steve Fretzin

Twitter: @stevefretzin

Instagram: @fretzinsteve

Facebook: Fretzin, Inc.

Website: Fretzin.com

Email: Steve@Fretzin.com

Book: Legal Business Development Isn't Rocket Science and more!

YouTube: Steve Fretzin

Call Steve directly at 847-602-6911

Show notes by Podcastologist Chelsea Taylor-Sturkie

Audio production by Turnkey Podcast Productions. You're the expert. Your podcast will prove it.