ASCO Guidelines – Détails, épisodes et analyse

Dr. Alison Loren and Dr. Ann Partridge share the latest guideline from ASCO on the management of cancer during pregnancy. They highlight the importance of this multidisciplinary, evidence-based guideline and overarching principles for the management of cancer during pregnancy. Drs. Loren and Partridge discuss key recommendations from each section of the guideline, including diagnostic evaluation, oncologic management, obstetrical management, and psychological and social support. They also touch on the importance of this guideline and accompanying tools for clinicians and how this serves as a framework for pregnant patients with cancer. The conversation wraps up with a discussion on the unanswered questions and how future evidence will inform guideline updates. 

Read the full guideline, "Management of Cancer During Pregnancy: ASCO Guideline" at www.asco.org/survivorship-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

This guideline, clinical tools, and resources are available at www.asco.org/survivorship-guidelines. Read the full text of the guideline and review authors' disclosures of potential conflicts of interest in the Journal of Clinical Oncology, https://ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/JCO-25-02115  

Brittany Harvey: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast, one of ASCO's podcasts delivering timely information to keep you up to date on the latest changes, challenges, and advances in oncology. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts.

My name is Brittany Harvey, and today I am interviewing Dr. Alison Loren from the Perelman School of Medicine of the University of Pennsylvania and Dr. Ann Partridge from Dana-Farber Cancer Institute, co-chairs on "Management of Cancer During Pregnancy: ASCO Guideline." Thank you for being here today, Dr. Loren and Dr. Partridge.

Dr. Alison Loren: Thanks for having us.

Dr. Ann Partridge: It's a pleasure.

Brittany Harvey: And then just before we discuss this guideline, I would like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The disclosures of potential conflicts of interest for the guideline panel, including Dr. Partridge and Dr. Loren who have joined us here today, are available online with the publication of the guideline in the Journal of Clinical Oncology, which is linked in the show notes.

So then to dive into the meat of this guideline, to start us off, Dr. Loren, could you provide an overview of the scope and purpose of this new guideline on the optimal management of cancer during pregnancy?

Dr. Alison Loren: Sure, thanks, Brittany. So this was really born out of I think a lot of passion and concern for this really vulnerable patient population. We have observed, and I am sure it is not any surprise to your audience, that the incidence of cancer in young people is increasing. And simultaneously, people are choosing to become pregnant at older ages, and so we are seeing more and more people with a cancer diagnosis during their pregnancy. And for probably obvious reasons, there is really no way to do randomized clinical trials in this population. And so really trying to assemble and articulate the best evidence for safely managing the diagnosis of cancer, the management of cancer once it is confirmed, being thoughtful about obviously the health of the mom, but also attending to potential risks to the developing fetus, and really just trying to be really comprehensive and balanced about all the choices for these patients when they are facing some really challenging decisions in a very emotionally fraught environment. And I think it is really emotionally fraught for the providers, too. You know, this is obviously an extremely intense, very emotional set of decisions, and so trying to provide a rudder essentially to sort of help people frame the questions and trying to make as evidence-based a set of recommendations as possible.

Dr. Ann Partridge: And I would just add that "evidence-based" is a strong word here because typically our, as you just heard, our gold standard evidence is a randomized trial, but you can't do that in this setting, in general. And so, what we were able to do with the support of the phenomenal ASCO staff was to pull together kind of the world's literature on the safety and outcomes of treatments during pregnancy, as well as consensus opinion. And I think that is a really, really critical difference about this particular guideline compared to many of the other ones that ASCO does, where consensus and good judgment needed to kind of rule the day when evidence is not available. So, there is a lot of that in our recommendations.

Dr. Alison Loren: That is such a good point. And I just, before we move forward, I just want to reflect that the composition of the panel was really broad and wide-ranging. We had maternal medicine specialists, we had legal and ethical experts, we had representatives who understand pharmaceutical industries' perspectives, and then medical oncologists representing the full spectrum of oncology diagnoses. And so it was a really diverse, in terms of expertise, panel, internationally composed to try to really get the best consensus that we could in the absence of gold standard evidence.

Brittany Harvey: Absolutely. That multidisciplinary panel is really key to developing this guideline and, as you said, looking at the evidence and even though it does not reach the level of randomized trials, still critically evaluating it and reviewing that along with consensus to come up with optimal management for diagnosis and management of cancer during pregnancy.

So then to follow that up, I would like to next review the key recommendations of the guideline across the main sections that the expert panel provided. First, I will throw this out to either of you, but what are the important general principles for the management of cancer during pregnancy?

Dr. Ann Partridge: I think there were three major principles that we hammer home in the guidelines. One is that this is a team sport. It is multidisciplinary care that is necessary in order to optimize outcomes for the patient and potentially for the fetus. And that you really need to, from the beginning, bring in a coordinated team, including not just oncologists but obstetricians, maternal-fetal medicine specialists, neonatologists, ethics consultants, and obviously the patient and potentially her family. So that, I think, is one of the most important things.

Second would be that obviously in a pregnancy, there are two potential patients and that the nuances of safety and risk from treatment is really wrapped up in where in the trimester of the pregnancy the patient is diagnosed, along with the kind of cancer that it is, both the urgency of treatment and the risk of the cancer, as well as the potential risks of any given intervention across the cancer continuum. It is a broad guideline in that regard.

And then finally, and this is particularly timely given what is going on from a sociopolitical standpoint in the U.S., really thinking about informed consent and potential ethical as well as legal implications of some of the choices that patients might have when they are thinking about, in particular, continuing a pregnancy or potential termination.

Dr. Alison Loren: And I will just add that I think that the key to all of this guidance is nuance and individualization and also making sure that patients and their care providers understand all the choices that are available to them and also the consequences of those choices. You know, nobody would choose to receive chemotherapy during pregnancy if that wasn't necessary. So there are risks to treatment, but there are also risks to not treatment. And making sure that in a suboptimal situation where you do not have a lot of evidence, trying to weigh, the best you can, the risks and benefits of all of the choices so that the patient can come to a decision about the treatment plan that is right for her.

Brittany Harvey: Definitely. And those core concepts really set the stage for individualized care on what is necessary for appropriate multidisciplinary care, prioritizing both patient autonomy and informed decision making.

With those core concepts and key principles in mind, I would like to move into the recommendations section of the guideline. So what are the key recommendations regarding diagnostic evaluation for pregnant patients with signs or symptoms of cancer?

Dr. Alison Loren: I think the most important thing is to not delay, that there are very careful and well-thought-out recommendations for how to evaluate a potential cancer. And while there are certain things that we know can be harmful, particularly when certain dose thresholds are exceeded - for instance, abdominal imaging, there are certain radiographic thresholds that you don't want to exceed because of risk of harm to the embryo or fetus - there are still lots of options for diagnosing cancer during pregnancy. And again, thinking about the costs of not doing versus the cost of doing, right? It is really important to make the diagnosis of cancer if that is a consideration or a concern. And sometimes going directly to biopsies or getting definitive studies, even if there is a small risk to the developing fetus, is really essential because if the mom does not survive, of course, the fetus is also not going to survive. And so we need to be thinking first about the patient who is sitting in front of us, the woman who needs to know what is going on in her body so she can make good decisions about her health. So, I think that is a key principle in thinking about this.

Brittany Harvey: Absolutely. So, following that diagnosis of a new or recurrent cancer, what is recommended for oncologic management of patients who are diagnosed with cancer during their pregnancy?

Dr. Ann Partridge: So, I think the general principle is, again, cancer is such a wide number of diseases and even within diseases, a range of stages and risks and associated opportunities for risk reduction and/or treatment depending on the type of cancer. Just by example, in the work that I do, which is breast cancer, once someone has had a surgery in the early-stage setting, a lot of our treatment is about risk reduction. And that is very different than from what Alison does, which is treating people with leukemia, where it is kind of binary. If you do not treat, including with cytotoxic drugs, the patient and an unborn fetus will die, especially early in the pregnancy, obviously.

So this is where cancers are very, very different. So I think taking the approach of what would you do if the patient were not pregnant? And what is the best treatment for that particular patient with that particular kind of cancer? And then applying the pregnancy and where the patient is in that pregnancy in terms of the trimester of the pregnancy, and what is safe and what is unsafe from the options that you would give her if she were not pregnant. And then if the patient is choosing to keep the pregnancy, which in my practice, many people come and they come to me because they want to hold onto their pregnancy and want to figure out how to make it work, coming up with a regimen that tries to give them kind of the best bang for the buck, the best possible breast cancer therapy with the least harm, when possible, to the fetus. It is a bit of a balance, right? And then we cannot always give people the best approach. And sometimes it comes down to making a decision to give up something that may improve their survival so as not to harm the fetus. And sometimes it goes the opposite direction where a patient will say, "Oh, that is going to improve my survival by 5% and you can't give it to me now? I am going to choose to terminate." Even though that is obviously a very, very difficult and challenging decision to make in this setting because they want to optimize their survival and ideally live on to potentially have another pregnancy in the future if that is something that is of interest to her. So these are really, really hard conversations as you can imagine, but that is kind of where we go.

Dr. Alison Loren: Yeah, and I think this is where the need for more research and understanding is really key because sometimes questions come up. I guess I am thinking about like HER2-directed agents, which we know are contraindicated in pregnancy. But what about sequencing? Does it matter when you get it? Can you get it later? I think that is something that we don't really fully understand. And similarly, again, this is obviously like a breast cancer and blood cancer focused discussion because that is what we do, but thinking about managing blood cancers, certainly with acute lymphoblastic leukemia, there is actually a lot of options now that, you know, you could potentially use to temporize or sort of get somebody through a pregnancy relatively safely. I am focusing on the word "relatively" because we do not know what the long-term impact might be of potentially not optimal therapy in the long run. And then thinking about other things like timing of a bone marrow transplant relative to either delivery or termination. I mean, again, we really do not know what are the right sets of sort of timing considerations for those. So there are just a lot of unknowns. And I think trying to be sort of self-aware and humble and honest about those unknowns so that the patient can engage in the conversation in a way that is meaningful to her and make the decisions that make the most sense for her. I think the most important thing is to make sure that the patient feels supported and safe to make those decisions with as little regret as possible.

Brittany Harvey: Yes, I think it is really important that you mentioned that there is a wide range of cancers here, and that means that care really needs to be individualized for each patient. I will also note, just in this section, that I found really informative while reading through the guideline the list of oncologic agents that may be offered in each individual trimester, whether it is contraindicated or it can be used with caution, or if there is relatively good safety data on it for prioritizing maternal treatment needs and balancing fetal safety at the same time. I think that is, that is really key. And I think readers will really like that section of the guideline to provide concrete information for them and their patients.

Dr. Alison Loren: Thank you. We actually spent a lot of time on that table and just thinking about what it should look like, what the format ought to be, what the language ought to be. Because of course, at the end of the day, everything should be used with caution. So what does that actually mean? And we sort of tried to explicate that a little bit in like the footnotes. We really tried to leverage what we know from clinical experience, from package labels, from mechanism of action to try to be as clear and definitive as we could be without overstating or understating what we know.

Dr. Ann Partridge: Yeah, and I think we are focusing on breast and leukemia because that is what we do. But the truth is much of the data comes from those two areas. Leukemia, not because it is so common, but because you do not really have choices to treat or not treat. And so for decades, they have been treating and saying, "We hope the progeny comes out okay." And for many agents it does. The babies are okay. And so, we have reasonable observational data. And then in breast cancer, there have been actually some prospective registry-type studies where people have been followed and treated when pregnant, and the progeny have been accounted for, and so we have some good experience in that way too. Again, not randomized trials, but at least data that suggests certain agents are safe. And increasingly, because of that, when we have had to treat patients, we have said, "Okay, let us do it on this registry so that we can at least learn from every patient that comes in in this situation." And so, I think we will have more and more data given the growing number of young adults with cancer and the delays in childbearing that are happening around the world, and particularly in Westernized countries. I wish we did not. We wish we did not see this problem, but of course, when we do, we have to make sure that we learn from it and try and get patients enrolled in these registries and any kinds of studies that are available.

Dr. Alison Loren: Yeah, I will just underscore that to say that, you know, there is outcomes of pregnancy and then there is outcomes of pregnancy, right? So there is like, "Okay, the baby was born with 10 fingers and 10 toes, and they passed their Apgar, and they are doing all their developmental processes along the way." But what happens when they are 10 or 15 or 20? Are they maturing normally? Are they cognitively intact? And then, of course, it is really inseparable from what is the impact on a family of having the mom with cancer? And how does that impact childhood development and intellectual development? And so these are really, really important questions that are very difficult to answer given the longitudinal information that you need, but it is a really critical question that, you know, patients ask and we do not know the answer.

Dr. Ann Partridge: Yeah, that actually leads me to one of the important principles in the guideline that is a little bit of a change from when I first started practicing, which is we have learned from the wider neonatology literature, as they have followed up on the children that were born prematurely, that it is actually better not to be premature and to keep the baby in utero as long as it is safe for the fetus and the mother as long as possible, ideally to term rather than delivering early and then giving the chemo after that or separating the chemo from before and after. We used to try and deliver early and then give agents, but now we typically will give agents that are safe to be given at the end of pregnancy, ideally close to term, a couple weeks out, to allow for the ability of count recovery, and you do not want to go into preterm labor with chemotherapy on board, but we used to go much earlier and have an argument with our maternal-fetal medicine doctors. "How early can you get them out?" And they would say, "How long can they stay in?" And increasingly, we have been able to try and compromise to go even later and allow the fetus to go to term because of the neonatal outcomes that in longer term there is a suggestion that the children are developing better in the long run if they are kept in utero for as long as possible.

Dr. Alison Loren: Yeah, that is such a great point. I think that is probably the most important thing for people to take away. For anyone who sort of does this, I mean, no one does this regularly because it is a rare event, although I think it is increasing as I mentioned. But this idea that the third trimester is, most of us know, is primarily a time for growth. Most of the critical development has already occurred, and so administering most chemotherapy agents towards the end of the third trimester seems to be preferable long term than delivering them early. So that is a really big change. I think we used to try to sort of, "Oh, get them to 30 or 32 weeks and then deliver," but we really are trying to get them closer to term, 37 weeks or more, and then coordinating the treatment so that they are not nadiring, as Ann said, at the time of planned delivery.

Brittany Harvey: Yes, and that is a really important point related to evidence-based care and why we have changed that practice.

And so then that actually leads nicely into my next question. But as you both mentioned, this is an important collaboration between oncologists and obstetricians. So the next section of the guideline addresses obstetrical practice. And so beyond what is standard, what additional recommendations are there in obstetrical management for pregnant patients with cancer?

Dr. Alison Loren: That is a great question. So I will say we were really struggling with like how much do we cover? Like this is an oncology guideline. We are not obstetricians. We certainly had great representation from our maternal-fetal medicine colleagues on the panel. But really trying to sort of give useful information without overstepping. And so I think that the main recommendations are to increase the frequency of fetal monitoring, make sure that there is close attention to blood counts in the patient. But I think there is really still a gap in terms of what we know about optimal management of a pregnant person who is receiving therapy and how to handle the pregnancy itself. The delivery should be a usual delivery. Our colleagues did not recommend a planned C-section. They recommended usual care in terms of planning for the delivery. Obviously, if a C-section is indicated, then it should be done, but it should not be planned this way because of the cancer diagnosis. And I guess the other thing that we mentioned in the guideline, although we were reluctant to push it too hard because of access to these specialized services, was evaluating the placenta after birth to ensure that there were no metastases in the placenta itself.

Dr. Ann Partridge: Those are the main things, and judicious and prudent obstetrical care, as I think, you know, is trying to be practiced regularly with MFM. Typically these patients should be followed not by your average OB/GYN, but a maternal-fetal medicine specialist because these patients will have special concerns, especially if they are sick. So oftentimes, especially Alison's patients, are actually sick with leukemia. And so you are monitoring them a lot, whereas, you know, a breast cancer patient typically isn't sick, although they could get sick with their chemotherapy. And so we really want to hand-in-hand manage these patients with our MFM colleagues.

Dr. Alison Loren: I think we also highlighted in the guideline just for the refresher purposes of the oncology community, generally which drugs that would be given in a normal oncology setting are safe to be given to a pregnant person. So we talked a little bit about what kinds of steroids are recommended, antiemetics, DVT prophylaxis, peripartum. These are things that we think about a lot in oncology, but just want to make sure that it sort of intersected appropriately with the care of a pregnant patient.

Brittany Harvey: Definitely. That specialized care is really important for patients who are pregnant and have cancer.

And then the last section of the recommendations addresses psychological and social support. As you both mentioned before, this is a highly emotional time and it can be difficult and challenging to make decisions. So what is recommended for the psychological and social support of pregnant patients with cancer?

Dr. Ann Partridge: Well, as I said, it is really something that needs to be considered at the beginning, through the diagnostic period, all the way into survivorship. Ironically, even though it is a highly fraught, emotional situation, I find that my pregnant patients actually are extraordinarily resilient, and what they are really focused on often is the safety of the fetus, because again, many of the people that come to me, it is a highly wanted pregnancy. They are also focused on their own health, of course, and often you need to bring in social work, sometimes a psychologist, professionals who are there just to help manage their emotions while we are focusing on what do they need medically to be as healthy as possible, both for the again, the mother, the patient, and the fetus.

It is very tricky, and I will say also bringing in sometimes people on the ethics team in the hospital to help, both from the "Are you recommending and giving something that is safe?" That is number one. And then number two, sometimes patients want to be treated with drugs that we do not have any safety data for in pregnancy. What are our obligations? I think most of us would say we would not treat someone if we do not have safety data and there is suspicion for concern. But where is that line in terms of the right thing to do by that patient? And so we are all beholden to our ethics colleagues to help us when we make decisions like that. You know, we all want to do right by the patient, but we have to uphold our oaths and legal obligations. I don't know if you have to add on that because it's very tricky.

Dr. Alison Loren: It is, it is very hard. I mean, I think, you know, there is a lot of emotion, obviously any cancer diagnosis is extremely charged and people are already at sort of a heightened, you know, they are anticipating a new baby and planning around that. And so it is just an extremely disruptive is the smallest word I can think of to describe it. And I think that often there is a co-parent, there might be parents and in-laws and other siblings, and then there is care after delivery. And so it is just a very complex set of dynamics. And having both our ethics colleagues and our psychology and social work colleagues to sort of just pitch in and make sure that the patient is being supported. I think there are sometimes really difficult situations where maybe what the patient wants is different from what the father of the baby wants or what the rest of the family wants. And so that can be really challenging. And you never really know where those landmines are going to pop up. So it is good to have the team on board early and often.

Dr. Ann Partridge: Yeah, I would add to that, the other thing here that I think is really important, like in all of medicine but especially in situations like this, this is where we have to be very careful as professionals not to impose our own ethical, moral, emotional, personal views on the patient and to try to reserve judgment as much as possible. We are their navigator with the most important evidence and information that we can provide in the current situation. And that is where this guideline is extraordinarily helpful, we hope, for clinicians in the years to come. And at the same time, we cannot necessarily impose our own views and what we would do on a patient or what we tell our daughters, sisters, friends, family members. It is very tricky in that way. And so sometimes not just support for the patient, but support for the care team may be warranted in some of these very fraught situations.

Dr. Alison Loren: Yeah, that is such a great point. And I was sort of thinking that too. I mean, it is, of course, the patient is front and center, but these are really difficult situations to navigate. And I will just add also that a lot of times these patients end up in academic centers, which I think is that's where the expertise or even just the experience may be. But the downside of that is that, you know, the teams are constantly changing. You have a new resident, you have a new intern, you have a new attending, a new fellow. And so, you know, the patients may be subjected to lots of different ways of communicating and sometimes those perceived differences can be really challenging. So sort of team huddles to sort of make sure that everybody is reading from the same script and everyone is comfortable with how the information is being presented so that the patient does not feel more confused or more overwhelmed, that they are kind of getting a consistent message from the whole team that, "This is what we know, this is what we are recommending, here are your other choices, and here are the pros and cons of each of these options."

Brittany Harvey: Yes, I think you have both touched on this and that bringing in appropriate experts to support both clinicians and patients and their decision-making and their mental health is really important for this section of the guideline.

We have already discussed this a fair bit throughout our conversation, but in your view, what is the importance of this guideline and how will it impact both clinicians and pregnant patients diagnosed with cancer?

Dr. Ann Partridge: I could start with that. We just talked about experts and having them all around, but the fact is most people do not have the experts all around when they are dealing with this. And I think this is, you know, an expert-based, evidence-based guideline where having this in one's back pocket, whether you are in rural Montana or at a major cancer center on either coast, you will be armed with the latest and the greatest in terms of what we know and what we do not know, and some very helpful algorithms for how to think through the process of dealing with a patient who is diagnosed during pregnancy, whichever type of cancer it is. We could not cover every single specific thing about every cancer, although it is a pretty long guideline and there is a lot of nuance in there. So you might find a lot about specific cancers. And I think that that will be very, very helpful for people who are faced with this situation in the clinics just to frame it out, think through. Sometimes there is no answer that is the perfect answer and then, you know, using this as kind of a scaffolding and phoning a friend who may have more experience to help guide you and guide the patient, most importantly. I think it will be very helpful in that regard.

Dr. Alison Loren: Yeah, I think so too. And I have talked about that we are working on this guideline and the anecdotal feedback has been, "This is so helpful." Like there really has not been, I think, an all-in-one place, diagnostic considerations, radiographic considerations, staging, treatment, all the modalities, surgical, radiation, systemic chemotherapy. We tried to include, when we could, novel agents including targeted agents and monoclonal antibodies and bispecifics and cellular immunotherapies and non-cellular immunotherapies. We really, really tried to cover in 2025 what are people using to treat cancer and to try to give the most balanced view of what we think is is safe or reasonably safe and what we think is either unproven or known to be risky, really to have it be kind of a go-to, like all-in-one, as much information as we have about these really challenging cases. We tried to include, Ann mentioned, you know, specific cancers, and I think when there were specific things to shout out with specific cancers, we really tried to highlight that. Like, "Okay, lots of young patients with cancer have Hodgkin's lymphoma, so what is safe and what is not for that specific case?" Or, "What is safe or what is not when you are thinking about colon cancers?" And we have a shout-out in here about considering checking for DPD deficiencies in patients who are pregnant. And I know it is generally recommended nowadays, but certainly for people who are pregnant, you know, you really want to avoid excess toxicity. So I think just really trying to be attentive to specifics about certain cancers in young patients and what would be valuable for a practicing oncologist and obstetrician to know when you are faced with this situation.

Dr. Ann Partridge: Yeah, and I think the other critical thing that is great about this guideline is it's a starting place. And I anticipate that we will be building on this guideline for many years to come. And remember that when first, I was not around then, but probably three or four decades ago, when chemotherapy was just coming out and patients were coming in pregnant, there was a feeling I am sure that was, "We cannot give this to this person because it is purposefully going to destroy cells. And when you destroy cells in a growing fetus, you are going to destroy or harm that fetus." And yet, people did not have great choices. It was get treated or die, especially with things like leukemia early on. And bold patients along with their oncologist said, "Bring it on." And that is how some of this literature has been born. And so moving forward, there will be either purposeful exposures or inadvertent exposures of some of our therapies where we will learn ultimately. And this is a place where we can update these guidelines. That is the beautiful thing about the ASCO guidelines is that they are constantly being thought about to be updated. And then when there is enough of a change in practice, they will be updated such that they will continue to inform how we do this in the years to come for patients who come in pregnant.

Dr. Allison Loren: Yeah, and I will say I have been doing this long enough now, we were just talking about a different guideline, the fertility guideline earlier today, and over the 20 years that the fertility guidelines have been out, just the amount of research has really skyrocketed. And you can see as you look at each guideline how much we have learned, what we can say, "Yes, this is working," "No, this is not working." Like, it is stuff that we used to say, "Oh, we do not really know," and now we have answers. 

I think I speak for both of us when I say that we are hopeful that this will serve as, as Ann said, as a starting off point and really inspire people to ask the questions and do the research so that we can give better guidance moving forward, really trying to think about, you know, mechanisms and leaning on our colleagues in pharma and in the government who sort of think about safety and efficacy, to sort of make sure that they are contemplating not just non-pregnant patients, but also pregnant patients or as they are thinking about marking the package inserts with safety guidelines around this.

Brittany Harvey: Yes, this is a critically important first guideline on the management of cancer during pregnancy, and we will look forward to continuing to build on that. I think as you mentioned, this guideline is far-reaching and has a lot of recommendations in it. And so both the full text of the guideline and those at-a-glance algorithms, figures, and tables will be really useful for clinicians in their clinic.

Finally, to wrap us up, we have just been discussing this a little bit, but specifically, what are the outstanding questions on the management of pregnant patients with cancer, and where is this further research needed?

Dr. Alison Loren: There are lots and lots and lots of unanswered questions. And I think if you look at the table, most of what we say is, "We are pretty sure this is okay, we are not so sure about this." I am paraphrasing, but we really just are operating in a paucity of what we would normally consider gold-standard evidence. It is hard to imagine, of course, there would ever be, as we mentioned in the beginning, randomized trials. But I think that preclinical data, mechanistic data, trying to think about including as we go through animal data, making sure that we are looking at female animals and pregnant animals so that we can sort of fully understand what the impact may be. And then I think thinking about more localized therapies around sort of radiation, you know, we are now moving into really hyper-focused radiation treatments like protons. Is that better because there is less scatter? Like I think those are real considerations that we just do not know the answer to.

What do you think?

Dr. Ann Partridge: I think so many unanswered questions, and this is a call to action to continue to and increase the documentation of the experiences and outcomes for patients diagnosed during pregnancy.

Dr. Alison Loren: Yeah, and I think the long-term outcomes too are really going to be critical.

Brittany Harvey: Yes, we will look forward to learning about more evidence across the spectrum of care to inform future updates to this guideline.

So I want to thank you both so much for your work to develop this guideline, to review the extensive amounts of literature that you did, and work to create this guideline. And thank you also for your time today, Dr. Loren and Dr. Partridge.

Dr. Alison Loren: Thanks. It was fun.

Dr. Ann Partridge: Yeah, thank you.

Brittany Harvey: And finally, thank you to all of our listeners for tuning into the ASCO Guidelines Podcast. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/survivorship-guidelines. You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app, which is available in the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. If you have enjoyed what you have heard today, please rate and review the podcast and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.

Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. 

Dr. Tanya Thomas and Dr. Aparna Jotwani join the podcast to discuss the new Oncology Nursing Society and American Society of Clinical Oncology evidence-based guideline on the management of antineoplastic extravasation. They discuss recommendations from the expert panel on: management of extravasation of vesicant or irritant with vesicant properties antineoplastic agents, management of extravasation of paclitaxel or docetaxel, use & duration of thermal compress, and escalation of care. They share the importance of this comprehensive interdisciplinary guideline, highlight the algorithm as a useful tool for clinicians, and outline the outstanding questions related to the management of extravasation.

Read the full guideline, "ONS/ASCO Guideline on the Management of Antineoplastic Extravasation" at www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

This guideline, clinical tools, and resources are available at www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines. Read the full text of the guideline and review authors' disclosures of potential conflicts of interest in the JCO Oncology Practice, https://ascopubs.org/doi/10.1200/OP-25-00579 

Brittany Harvey: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines podcast, one of ASCO's podcasts delivering timely information to keep you up to date on the latest changes, challenges, and advances in oncology. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts.

My name is Brittany Harvey, and today I'm interviewing Dr. Tanya Thomas, clinical chair of the guideline and clinical nurse specialist from University of Virginia Health, and Dr. Aparna Jotwani, medical oncologist from Baylor College of Medicine, authors on "Management of Antineoplastic Extravasation: Oncology Nursing Society – American Society of Clinical Oncology Guideline." Thank you for being here today, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Jotwani.

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: Thank you.

Dr. Tanya Thomas: Thank you for having us.

Brittany Harvey: And then before we discuss this guideline, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The disclosures of potential conflicts of interest for the guideline panel, including Dr. Thomas and Dr. Jotwani, who have joined us here today, are available online with the publication of the guideline in JCO Oncology Practice, which is linked in the show notes.

So then to dive into the content here, Dr. Thomas, could you start us off by providing an overview of both the scope and the objectives of this guideline?

Dr. Tanya Thomas: Yes, so the objective of this guideline is to provide the evidence-based recommendations to help support our interdisciplinary teams, including the oncologist, the advanced practice providers, pharmacists, and nurses who are involved in the care and management of patients who are experiencing an extravasation of an antineoplastic agent. While rare, the antineoplastic and certain chemotherapy extravasations are oncologic emergencies. The recommendations are to minimize negative consequences and provide a standardized approach to the care when such an event occurs.

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: I would add that our scope is limited to intravenous antineoplastic vesicants, irritants, and irritants with vesicant potential. The scope of the guideline applies to the care team for adult oncology patients receiving treatments through venous access. Outside the scope is management of extravasation during other routes of treatment administration, such as intraperitoneal, intravesical, and hepatic arterial infusion. Our recommendations regarding vascular access for therapy or interventions to prevent extravasations are also outside of the scope for this guideline.

Brittany Harvey: Understood. I appreciate that background and understanding what's in scope and what's out of scope for this guideline.

So then I'd like to pivot and talk about the key recommendations of this guideline across the clinical questions. So first, Dr. Jotwani, what does the panel recommend for patients with extravasation of vesicant or irritant with vesicant properties antineoplastic agents?

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: The panel strongly recommends for all classes where an antidote exists to proceed with using the antidote. Recommendations for paclitaxel and docetaxel are specifically addressed in a recommendation. This is further detailed in Tables 1 and 4 within the guideline. Evidence on the use of antidotes for extravasation is limited to nonrandomized, uncontrolled, observational studies and case series. Placebo-controlled trials on this topic would be unethical. There is also a lack of comparative data for different antidote strategies. However, potential benefits of using the antidotes include tissue preservation and avoiding tissue necrosis. In developing the guidelines, we had an in-person roundtable discussion and weighed risks and benefits to ensure patient safety above all else.

Brittany Harvey: I appreciate that description of the recommendation here. So then you just mentioned that there's a specific recommendation for paclitaxel and docetaxel. So what is recommended for those patients with extravasation of paclitaxel or docetaxel?

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: So here, we conditionally recommended the specific use of hyaluronidase as the antidote. This was based on five studies that all used hyaluronidase as an antidote to lower the risk of tissue necrosis. In the studies included, with a subgroup of patients that experienced taxane-related extravasation, development of necrosis ranged from 0% to 0.83% among the patients who received an antidote. The potential harms associated with this were likely trivial.

Brittany Harvey: Thank you for providing that recommendation as well.

So then the next section of the guideline, Dr. Thomas, what does the expert panel recommend for use and duration of thermal compress?

Dr. Tanya Thomas: So the expert panel actually recommends the use of thermal compresses, and the recommendations are based on the available literature for the various agents and the actual time frames most frequently used for the compress application. The utilization of a thermal compress is recommended for 15 to 20 minutes at a time for 3 to 4 times daily, at least for the first 48 to 72 hours after that extravasation occurs. The actual frequency and duration may vary based on the extent of the extravasation and the agent involved in that extravasation. The intent of the warm compress is to help disperse the agent and reduce the localized accumulation of the agent, whereas the cold compress, it actually helps prevent the dispersion or the spread of the agent while allowing the antidote to help neutralize that agent.

Warm compresses are recommended for extravasations involving the vinca alkaloids, etoposide, oxaliplatin, and the taxanes - paclitaxel and docetaxel - only when coadministering the antidote hyaluronidase. The use of a cold compress is actually recommended for extravasations involving the anthracyclines, antimetabolites, alkylating agents, and taxanes when coadministration of the antidote hyaluronidase does not occur.

Brittany Harvey: Understood. Those specific and actionable recommendations are really key for clinical practice.

So then, following those recommendations, how does the guideline address escalation of care and surgical referral for patients with central line extravasation?

Dr. Tanya Thomas: So this topic actually had a lot of discussion. And while there is not enough evidence to make strong recommendations, the expert panel recognized that surgical referrals should be considered in certain scenarios.

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: We discussed that certain scenarios would include high-risk populations, such as patients that are receiving DNA-binding vesicants, those with high-volume estimated extravasation, and those with CTCAE grade 2, which would be erythema associated with symptoms such as edema, pain, induration, and phlebitis, or grade 3, which would be symptoms of ulceration or necrosis or concern for severe tissue damage, or grade 4, where you would have a life-threatening consequence extravasation, may have a greater likelihood of benefiting from surgical referral and/or escalation of care as deemed appropriate.

Brittany Harvey: Great. And yes, it's really important to provide all of these recommendations that you've both just gone through, even when we're faced with very low evidence.

So then, Dr. Thomas, in your view, what is the importance of this guideline, and how will it impact clinical practice?

Dr. Tanya Thomas: So when extravasations occur in the clinical setting, members of the interdisciplinary team can be faced with barriers related to where to look for the information, how to find all the relevant information in one concise place, how to provide education to the patient about how to care for the site of extravasation in the home setting, and also when to escalate to specialized teams. This can actually cause some added stress and anxiety, and in certain circumstances, may lead to delays in efficient management.

This guideline provides the resource clinicians have been looking for. It includes comprehensive recommendations for antineoplastic extravasations in one guideline while also providing a one-page algorithm with the key information regarding the management of the extravasations. This allows all levels of providers to have evidence-based recommendations regarding initial management of the extravasation, for instance, how to manage the infusion, key site assessment reminders, available antidotes, and the use of thermal compress; the required documentation, recommended follow-up scheduling, in addition to key aspects of the patient education. This type of guidance is not found in any other single document regarding antineoplastic extravasation. Having this document readily available at the point of care potentially can reduce time required for providers to search for management recommendations and also provide consistency in patient education and follow-up management scheduling. It reduces uncertainty within interdisciplinary teams and can help inform policy development for clinicians to approach extravasations with confidence.

Brittany Harvey: Absolutely. I agree that this is an incredible resource for clinicians with the recommendations, the algorithm that you mentioned, and the supporting evidence that underpins these recommendations to really provide both efficient and effective care for patients.

So beyond the impact for clinical practice, Dr. Jotwani, how will these guideline recommendations affect patients receiving antineoplastic treatment for cancer?

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: Exactly. In addition to the clinical care team, we want to help and benefit our patients. So, oncology patients that experience extravasations are at risk for, aside of the side effects of tissue necrosis and infection, they also are at risk for delay of cancer treatment. In making these guidelines, we kept in mind the cost and the efforts for patients, additional visits that they could incur, additional time and supplies for care of the extravasation, as well as cost. Our guideline aims to provide an evidence-based approach to the care of oncology patients receiving antineoplastic intravenous therapy. While there are gaps in the data due to the nature of these events, based on careful literature review, these guidelines serve as a basis for quality, standardized oncology care during extravasation. Personally, I hope our graphics especially can be used across the systems to guide clinical care.

Brittany Harvey: Definitely. We hope that these recommendations improve treatment and treatment outcomes for all patients receiving antineoplastic treatment for cancer.

So then you've also just mentioned some gaps in the literature. So Dr. Thomas, I'd like to turn to you to wrap us up and ask, what are the outstanding questions for the management of antineoplastic extravasation?

Dr. Tanya Thomas: Yes, that's a good question. Two of the main outstanding questions are related to the management of extravasations involving the novel agents and extravasations involving multi-agent regimens. The current literature regarding how to effectively manage the multi-agent regimens, for instance, there is no clear guidance for managing the extravasation for someone who is receiving a regimen that involves simultaneous administration of, let's say, a vinca alkaloid and an anthracycline. One of those agents requires a warm compress while the other requires a cold compress, and there are different antidotes for those two agents.

Additionally, there has not been a lot of published information on the impact of extravasation of those novel agents like the antibody-drug conjugates. With the pace of the drug development, a subgroup of the guideline panelists actually are exploring case reports specific to novel agents to help inform some future work.

Brittany Harvey: Yes, we'll look forward to learning more about how to address these ongoing issues and potentially impact guideline recommendations in the future as well.

So I want to thank you both so much for your work to develop this incredibly important guideline, and thank you for your time today, Dr. Thomas and Dr. Jotwani.

Dr. Aparna Jotwani: Thank you for the opportunity.

Dr. Tanya Thomas: Yes, thank you.

Brittany Harvey: And finally, thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines podcast. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines. I also encourage you to check out the companion episode on this guideline on the ONS podcast, available on Amazon Music, Apple Podcasts, Spotify, and YouTube Music.

And finally, you can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app, which is available in the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. If you've enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.

Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

Dr. Nimish Mohile and Dr. Jaishri Blakeley share the new rapid recommendation update to the therapy for diffuse astrocytic and oligodendroglial tumors in adults guideline. They review the evidence from the INDIGO trial that prompted this update, and how to incorporate the use of vorasidenib into clinical practice. They discuss the importance of molecular testing, particularly for IDH1 or IDH2 mutations and outstanding questions for treatment of patients with oligodendrogliomas and astrocytomas.

Read the latest update, "Therapy for Diffuse Astrocytic and Oligodendroglial Tumors in Adults: ASCO-SNO Guideline Rapid Recommendation Update."

This guideline, clinical tools, and resources are available at http://www.asco.org/neurooncology-guidelines. Read the full text of the guideline and review authors' disclosures of potential conflicts of interest in Journal of Clinical Oncology.

Brittany Harvey: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines podcast, one of ASCO's podcasts delivering timely information to keep you up to date on the latest changes, challenges and advances in oncology. You can find all the shows, including this one at asco.org/podcasts.  

My name is Brittany Harvey and today I'm interviewing Dr. Jaishri Blakeley from Johns Hopkins University School of Medicine and Dr. Nimish Mohile from the Department of Neurology and Wilmot Cancer Institute at the University of Rochester Medical Center, co-chairs on "Therapy for Diffuse Astrocytic and Oligodendroglial Tumors in Adults: American Society of Clinical Oncology-Society for Neuro-Oncology Guideline Rapid Recommendation Update." 

Thank you for being here today, Dr. Blakeley and Dr. Mohile. 

Dr. Jaishri Blakeley: Thank you. 

Dr. Nimish Mohile: Thank you for having us. 

Brittany Harvey: And then before we discuss this guideline, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO Conflict of Interest Policy is followed for each guideline. The disclosures of potential conflicts of interest for the guideline panel, including Dr. Blakeley and Dr. Mohile who have joined us here today, are available online with the publication of the guideline in the Journal of Clinical Oncology, which is linked in the show notes.  

So then, to jump into the content here, Dr. Mohile, could you start us off by describing what prompted this rapid update to the ASCO-SNO therapy for diffuse astrocytic and oligodendroglial tumors in adults guideline, which was previously published in 2021? 

Dr. Nimish Mohile: Yeah. So the key reason for this update is the publication of a study in 2023. And this was a study called the INDIGO study that looked at a new class of therapies, something called IDH inhibitors. And in this study with a drug called vorasidenib, changed how we think about the treatment of oligodendrogliomas and astrocytomas, so particularly the grade 2 oligodendrogliomas and grade 2 astrocytomas. Because of the results of that study, we decided that we needed to do an update to inform clinicians about some of these changes and how we might approach these tumors differently today. 

Brittany Harvey: Great. I appreciate that background. So then, based off the new data from the INDIGO study, what are the updated and new recommendations from the expert panel? 

Dr. Nimish Mohile: So the key findings from the INDIGO study involved people who had grade 2 astrocytomas and grade 2 oligodendrogliomas. And in the setting after surgery, they were treated with vorasidenib, and what they found is that this delayed the time to next intervention. And the key aspect of that is that it delayed when we could start radiation and chemotherapy in these patients.  

So what we did in the guidelines is that for both low grade oligodendrogliomas and low grade astrocytomas, we added one additional guideline statement. Our previous guideline in 2021 offered the options for observation or treatment with radiation and chemotherapy. And now in this guideline, we have options for observation, treatment with vorasidenib in those in whom we feel it is safe to defer radiation and chemotherapy, and then treatment with radiation and chemotherapy. So we've added in an additional option here. And the key message of the guideline is really on how, as clinicians, we think about using the vorasidenib and what the ideal setting for using the vorasidenib is. 

Brittany Harvey: Excellent. It's great to hear about this new option for patients. So then you were just talking about how we think about who to offer this IDH inhibitor to. So, Dr. Blakeley, what should clinicians know as they implement these new recommendations into practice? 

Dr. Jaishri Blakeley: Yes. So, first and foremost, let's go back to 2021, and a key note from those guidelines was the importance of molecular testing. And at that point, the importance of molecular testing, which in large part was focused on IDH1 or IDH2 mutations, was prognostic. We could say there's a difference in an IDH1 mutant astrocytoma and an IDH1 wild type astrocytoma, but we didn't have a specific therapeutic recommendation attached to that, like Dr. Mohile just said. And the big shift here is now we have a specific therapeutic for that population with IDH1 or IDH2 mutant glioma.  

So for clinicians, we hope that they've been getting molecular testing on newly diagnosed glioma already, but now there's an additional motivation to do so because it may change your treatment plan in the right circumstance. So since the publication of the phase III INDIGO study that Dr. Mohile mentioned, and the FDA approval of vorasidenib, if you meet the specified criteria in the clinical trial - which the guidelines point out is a little different than what's on the FDA label, so clinicians might want to dig into that a little bit - then there is a treatment option that is new and different than combined chemoradiation or radiation alone or observation. 

Brittany Harvey: I appreciate those clarifications there.  

So then also, Dr. Blakeley, how does this update impact patients with astrocytic or oligodendroglial tumors? 

Dr. Jaishri Blakeley: So first, patients also should know if they have IDH mutant gliomas. And this update only applies to people with IDH1/2 mutant glioma. Perhaps, we're not sure, it might only apply to people who are in the newly or newly-ish diagnosed category because the INDIGO study required that people were within the first five years of their surgical diagnosis and had not had other treatment. So there are a lot of people who have astrocytoma or oligodendroglioma who may or may not know their IDH1/2 status and may have already had another therapy - this update doesn't apply to them. We hope that future research will teach us about that. This update is for people who are newly diagnosed and just starting the journey to figure out the best therapy. It does say that if you do have that IDH1/2 alteration in your tumor, there is a drug therapy that is different from the drug therapies we would offer gliomas that do not have the IDH1/2 mutation. 

Brittany Harvey: Absolutely. I think both that emphasis on molecular testing is very important and also thinking about that study inclusion criteria and how it impacts who's eligible for this treatment.  

So then finally, Dr. Mohile, what are the outstanding questions about vorasidenib or other interventions for gliomas in adults? 

Dr. Nimish Mohile: I think the key question for clinicians is exactly who we're going to use this in. The challenges with inclusion criteria in clinical trials is they don't actually always match what we're seeing in the clinic. And I think it brings up the question of, in low grade oligodendrogliomas which we think of as very slow growing tumors, do we have the option outside of the strict inclusion criteria to use that drug in other settings? I think it brings up the question for some clinicians in some of the higher grade tumors, in the grade 3 tumors, we don't yet have data in that area and our guideline doesn't address that. But I think some will be asking what the clinical activity of vorasidenib is in that setting. There are some suggestions that the IDH inhibitors may impact seizure control, and I think that that's data that we're continuing to wait on.  

So I think that there's several outstanding questions there that we will have answers for hopefully in the next several years. I think the big question that we don't have an answer for and that will take a long time to know is whether the addition of vorasidenib in this setting actually improves how long people live. And given how long people with low grade oligodendrogliomas and low grade astrocytomas live today, we probably won't have an answer to that question for more than a decade. 

Brittany Harvey: Definitely. We'll look forward to these ongoing developments and eventually longer term data on overall survival on these agents.  

So, I want to thank you both so much for your work to rapidly include this information from this new trial. And thank you for your time today, Dr. Blakeley and Dr. Mohile. 

Dr. Jaishri Blakeley: Thank you so much. 

Dr. Nimish Mohile: Thank you Brittany. 

Brittany Harvey: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines podcast. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/neurooncology-guidelines. You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app, which is available in the Apple App Store or the Google Play Store. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode. 

The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions.  

Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience and conclusions. Guest statements on the podcast do not express the opinions of ASCO. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement. 

An interview with Dr. Jarushka Naidoo from Johns Hopkins University, author on "Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update." She discusses the identification, evaluation, and management of lung toxicities in patients receiving ICPis, focusing on pneumonitis in Part 5 of this 13-part series. For more information visit www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

[MUSIC PLAYING]

SPEAKER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines podcast series brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network-- a collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts.

My name is Brittany Harvey, and today we're continuing our series on the management of immune-related adverse events. I am joined by Dr. Jarushka Naidoo from Johns Hopkins University in Baltimore, Maryland, author on Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update and Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy: ASCO Guideline. And, today, we're focusing on lung toxicities in patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy. Thank you for being here, Dr. Naidoo.

JARUSHKA NAIDOO: Thank you. It's my pleasure to share updates on this guideline.

BRITTANY HARVEY: First, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO Conflict of Interest policy is followed for each guideline. The full conflict of interest information for this guideline panel is available online with a publication of the guidelines in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. Dr. Naidoo, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to these guidelines?

JARUSHKA NAIDOO: Yes. So I have research funding in the last two years from Merck, AstraZeneca, and Bristol Myers Squibb. And I also have served in a consulting role-- or an advisory board capacity-- for Merck, AstraZeneca, Bristol Myers. And not specifically related to this work, but also Pfizer, Takeda, Daiichi Sankyo, and Kaleido Biosciences.

BRITTANY HARVEY: OK. Thank you for those disclosures. Then-- getting into the content of this guideline-- what are the immune-related lung toxicities addressed in this guideline?

JARUSHKA NAIDOO: Thanks, Brittany. So the main lung toxicity that is addressed in this guideline is immune checkpoint inhibitor pneumonitis, which-- as this audience knows-- is an uncommon, but potentially fatal toxicity particularly associated with anti-PD-1 or PD-L1 monotherapy, but can also occur with combination immunotherapy approaches.

In the guideline, we go through what is known about the natural history, risk factors, and then, of course, our comprehensive approach to identifying, evaluating, and managing this toxicity, which is defined as a focal or diffuse inflammation of the lung parenchyma.

We also identify that, while pneumonitis is the quintessential lung toxicity that can occur with immune checkpoint inhibitors, we also note that there are some other lung toxicities that have been reported on, but for which known we relatively little.

And this includes sarcoid-like granulomatous reactions, including subpleural micronodular opacities and hilar lymphadenopathy, as well as pleural effusions. And these have been associated with both CTLA-4 and the PD-1, PD-L1 immune checkpoint inhibitor therapies.

BRITTANY HARVEY: I appreciate that overview. So then, you mentioned the main toxicity here is pneumonitis. What are the key recommendations for identification, evaluation, and management of pneumonitis?

JARUSHKA NAIDOO: Thanks, Brittany. So yeah, this is a key focus of the guideline. So, as we're aware, pneumonitis is defined as a focal or diffused inflammation of the lung parenchyma and is a toxicity that was identified as one of the early toxicities in the early clinical trials of the PD-1 inhibitors.

The incidence of this toxicity is estimated at anywhere between 0% and 10%, and in large meta analyses, looks to be around 2% to 3% in terms of incidence. In terms of how to evaluate patients with suspected immune-related pneumonitis, the common symptoms would be cough, shortness of breath, fever, and chest pain.

And in a patient who has suspected pneumonitis, some of the first tests to be done would be to take a pulse oximetry and to do some chest imaging. Chest imaging is preferable with a CT scan with contrast in order to rule out alternative etiology, such as pulmonary embolus

For patients who are symptomatic-- which means CTCAE grade 2 or greater-- we also recommend a standard infectious workup, which is guided by institutional guidelines. But based on our ASCO guideline, we outline that this should include, at a minimum, a nasal swab, sputum culture and sensitivity, blood culture and sensitivity, and urine culture and sensitivity, as well as a standard COVID-19 evaluation.

When we come to the diagnosis of pneumonitis, we then evaluate that in terms of CTCAE grade. Where the grade of pneumonitis refers, firstly, to whether a patient has symptoms, and the proportion of the lung parenchyma that may be involved with pneumonitis on chest imaging.

Broadly speaking, patients with grade 1 pneumonitis are asymptomatic and usually identified on radiographic imaging almost incidentally. For these patients, we would recommend either holding immunotherapy or proceeding with close monitoring.

And we recommend that patients should have weekly physical exams and pulse oximetry offered, and consideration of further chest imaging if the diagnosis is uncertain, or to follow progress-- usually around every three to four weeks-- or, if a patient becomes symptomatic, it may be more often than this.

We also recommend that we may consider doing spirometry or DLCO evaluation as a repeat in these patients. Broadly, again, in terms of the evaluation of patients-- if patients are symptomatic from pneumonitis, which means they have a symptom related to radiographic features, then this would be called grade 2.

And usually, radiographically, patients have more of the lung parenchyma involved-- greater than 25%-- and require a medical intervention. And the management would be prednisone, 1 to 2 milligrams per kilogram per day, that is then tapered over 4 to six weeks, and immunotherapy is held during that time.

Importantly, in order to knuckle down the diagnosis of pneumonitis, we recommend consideration of doing a bronchoscopy with bronchoalveolar lavage sampling in order to truly rule out alternative infectious diagnoses or lymphangitis carcinomatosis. And for this reason, a transbronchial biopsy can also be considered. In some cases, we also consider treating with empiric antibiotics to cover infection if we feel that this remains in the differential diagnosis.

If patients do not clinically improve after 48 to 72 hours on prednisone, then we recommend treating at a higher grade, meaning grade 3, where patients have severe symptoms, hospitalization is required, and a larger proportion of the lung parenchyma is involved.

For these patients who have grade 3 or greater pneumonitis, we recommend permanently discontinuing immunotherapy, administering a higher dose of steroids at methylprednisolone, 1 to 2 milligrams per kilogram per day. And, once again-- if there is no improvement after 48 hours, we recommend a range of potential additional immunosuppressive approaches, which include either infliximab, mycophenolate mofetil, intravenous immunoglobulin, or cyclophosphamide.

And there are currently no recommendations as to which may be the optimum immunosuppressive approach, but there are a number of clinical trials aiming to elucidate the answer to this. Importantly, overall in patients who are symptomatic, it may also be appropriate to consult pulmonary medicine and infectious diseases teams to weigh in on the diagnosis and management going forward.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Thank you for that clear, step-wise approach to the evaluation and management of pneumonitis. So then, in your view, Dr. Naidoo-- how will these recommendations for the management of lung toxicities impact both clinicians and patients?

JARUSHKA NAIDOO: I think it's very important for both clinicians and patients to be aware of the potential side effects of the treatment that patients are receiving with immune checkpoint inhibitors. We know that some toxicities from immunotherapy tend to be mild and can be managed quite well with corticosteroids or other approaches.

What we understand about lung toxicities is that, thankfully-- in the majority of cases-- pneumonitis will be well-controlled with corticosteroids and holding of immunotherapy. However, in a proportion of patients, pneumonitis may become severe and may even lead to treatment-related deaths.

And for that reason, both patients and clinicians need to be aware of what to look out for in terms of the symptoms of pneumonitis, and how to diagnose and manage this toxicity quickly and efficiently in order to avoid poor outcomes.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Absolutely. Those are excellent points for both clinicians and patients to keep in mind. So I really want to thank you for all of your work on these guidelines and for taking the time to speak with me today, Dr. Naidoo.

JARUSHKA NAIDOO: You're very welcome, Brittany. And thank you to the ASCO oncology community for the opportunity to share this important work.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning into the ASCO Guidelines podcast series. Stay tuned for additional episodes on the management of immune-related adverse events. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines. 

You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app, available in iTunes or the Google Play store. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

An interview with Dr. Yinghong Wang from MD Anderson Cancer Center, author on "Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update." She discusses the identification, evaluation, and management of gastrointestinal toxicities in patients receiving ICPis, including colitis and hepatitis in Part 4 of this 13-part series. For more information visit www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

[MUSIC PLAYING]

SPEAKER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network, a collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts. My name is Brittany Harvey. And today, we're continuing our series on the management of immune-related adverse events.

I am joined by Dr. Yinghong Wang from the University of Texas MD Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, author on Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update and Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy: ASCO Guideline. And today, we're focusing on gastrointestinal toxicities in patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy. Thank you for being here, Dr. Wang.

YINGHONG WANG: Thank you, Brittany. It's my great pleasure to be invited to participate in this education event. I'm happy to share my experience and the knowledge that I learned over all the research studies in this field and share with the readers or the community providers on this specific topic.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Thank you. Then, first, before we get into the content, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The full conflict of interest information for this guideline panel is available online with the publication of the guidelines in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. Dr. Wang, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to these guidelines?

YINGHONG WANG: I do have consulting services to two pharmaceuticals, but they're not related to the current guidelines that are published from the ASCO. They're Tillotts Pharma and Athenex Pharma.

BRITTANY HARVEY: OK. Thank you. Then, let's talk about these gastrointestinal toxicities. So first, what are the immune-related gastrointestinal toxicities addressed in this guideline?

YINGHONG WANG: So these particular guidelines have provided very detailed description on the incidence and clinical presentations and also recommendations on the evaluation and treatment for the upper and the lower gastrointestinal adverse events and the liver and even other organ toxicity, including the exocrine pancreas toxicities that are being categorized as GI field related to checkpoint inhibitor treatments.

BRITTANY HARVEY: OK. And then what are the key recommendations for the identification, evaluation, and management of colitis?

YINGHONG WANG: So colitis is definitely one of the most common organ to be involved in this category of toxicity-related checkpoint inhibitors. And that's why a lot more studies have been studied because the patient volume can allow enough power to run a lot of analysis. I think the summary that I would say-- the recommendations from the current ASCO Guidelines include the early recognition and evaluation with close monitoring for people who had suspicious symptoms for gastrointestinal adverse events and early stool inflammatory marker evaluation even in patients who had grade 1 symptoms. And very important to rule out alternative causes of the symptom presented, like infections or cancer metastases or some other medication-related side effects other than checkpoint inhibitors.

And the other important component of evaluation is endoscopy and the pathological evaluation for patients who had a positive stool inflammatory markers or if the patient has a presentation of colitis symptoms like bleeding. And also, the presence of ulcers on the endoscopy usually has been found to predict a steroid refractory disease course. Therefore, the early initiation of more potent treatment like biologic agents, such as infliximab or vedolizumab, is very critical. The other alternative medical treatment, like ustekinumab or tofacitinib or even fecal transplantation for refractory cases, should also be considered in the small portion of patients.

The disease monitoring while on the medical treatment is critical via the repeat endoscopy or following the fecal calprotectin level to guide the duration of treatment and the time to resume immune checkpoint inhibitor treatments if indicated. The rechallenge of these checkpoint inhibitors is possible among patients with GI toxicities, and the risk of GI toxicities is completely manageable. That's the brief summary of the GI recommendations.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Yeah. Thank you for that summary. And then just in addition to those key recommendations, is there anything additional about the identification, evaluation, and management of hepatitis?

YINGHONG WANG: Yeah. The hepatitis-- the incidence is not as common as colitis but can be severe in extreme cases. So it requires the equal attention to recognize and evaluate for liver toxicity after checkpoint inhibitors with close monitoring. We also need to rule out other alternative causes of the symptoms, including the infections, alcohols, iron overload, thromboembolic events, cancer metastases, et cetera. The imaging, on the other hand, is more critical for liver toxicity evaluation. This is a little bit different from using the endoscopy and biopsy for luminal GI tract toxicities. And the liver biopsy should also be considered in certain select cases through all other differential diagnosis and also the other alternative treatment other than corticosteroid, including azathioprine and mycophenolate mofetil, that are mentioned in the small case series and also listed in the current ASCO Guidelines.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Thank you for that overview for both colitis and hepatitis. So then, in your view, how will these recommendations for the management of gastrointestinal toxicities impact both clinicians and patients?

YINGHONG WANG: Yeah. Given the increasing volume of patients experiencing the GI adverse events related to the checkpoint inhibitor cancer therapies and their related morbidities, so both the clinicians and patients need to be familiar with the clinical presentations and the time frame of onset to ensure early recognition and early diagnosis, especially serious complication and even mortality can occur due to the significant delay in appropriate treatment in extreme cases. So the updated guideline provided by ASCO and also other professional societies in the US or internationally can provide a great resources to the academic and community clinicians when they encounter these cases in their practice.

So ultimately, the implementation of appropriate management and future prospective clinical trials in this field for these challenging conditions should improve the patient's outcome of toxicities and also cancer. And that's the goal of our clinicians and academia providers, to be able to serve the patient better in the future.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Definitely. Well, thank you for sharing this summary with us today, for all of your work on these guidelines, and for taking the time to speak with me today, Dr. Wang.

YINGHONG WANG: Thank you very much for this opportunity. Please let me know if you have any questions.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series. Stay tuned for additional episodes on the management of immune-related adverse events. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/supportive care guidelines. You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app available in iTunes or the Google Play store. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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An interview with Dr. Milan Anadkat from Washington University & Dr. Aung Naing from MD Anderson Cancer Center, authors on "Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update." They discuss recommendations for cutaneous toxicities in patients receiving ICPis, including rash, bullous dermatoses & SCAR in Part 3 of this 13-part series. For more information visit www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

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SPEAKER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines podcast series, brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network, a collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content, and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts. My name is Brittany Harvey. And today, we're continuing our series on the management of immune-related adverse events. I am joined by Dr. Milan Anadkat from Washington University in St. Louis, Missouri. And Dr. Aung Naing from the University of Texas M.D. Anderson Cancer Center in Houston, Texas, authors on Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update and Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy: ASCO Guideline.

And today, we're focusing on cutaneous toxicities in patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy. Thank you for being here Dr. Anadkat and Dr. Naing.

AUNG NAING: Thank you for having us.

MILAN ANADKAT: Thank you.

BRITTANY HARVEY: I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The full conflict of interest information for this guideline panel is available online with the publication of the guidelines in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. Dr. Anadkat, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to these guidelines?

MILAN ANADKAT: As listed in the document, I don't have any direct disclosures. I do have a number of indirect disclosures, as I've consulted on similar topics in the past.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. Then Dr. Naing, do you have any relevant disclosures that are related to these guidelines?

AUNG NAING: I do not have.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great, then let's get into the content of this guideline and the cutaneous toxicities that we're here today to talk about. So Dr. Naing, what are the immune-related cutaneous toxicities addressed in this guideline?

AUNG NAING: Well, with the advancement of immunotherapy, we've seen better response in our cancer patients. However, together with such positive outcomes, we are also seeing side effects caused by the immunotherapy. Disruption of the homeostatic mechanisms include a unique spectrum of side effects or immune related adverse events, commonly called IRAEs. The most common immune related adverse events in patients receiving checkpoint inhibitors are dermatitis, enterocolitis, transmitis, and endocrinopathies.

However, if you look at the most commonly reported IRAE of any grade, it is dermatologic toxicity. So here in this guideline, we addressed how to take care of the patients when they are having these side effects, particularly with the cutaneous toxicities. So when you look at that time to median onset of skin toxicities, it ranges from two to five weeks. And using CTCAE criteria for grading is a challenge for skin toxicity, as it may not reflect the true picture.

So, therefore, severity may be graded based on body surface area, tolerability, mobility, and durations. Those are the points also we discuss in this guideline. Broadly speaking, they are three groups of cutaneous IRAEs. They are rash inflammatory dermatitis, bullous dermatoses, and finally, Severe Cutaneous Adverse Reactions, SCAR. It is important to have thorough physical exam and rule out any other etiology of skin problems.

In general, it's also important to work closely with our colleagues from dermatology. While some of those low grade skin toxicities could be treated in outpatient setting, consulting the cases with dermatologists is important for higher grades of skin toxicities, such as bullous dermatoses and SCAR. My colleague, Dr. Milan Anadkat, will follow with a discussion on the role of dermatologists in taking care of patients with cutaneous toxicities caused by immunotherapy.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you, Dr. Naing for reviewing those. So then you just mentioned three categories of toxicity. And I'd like to review the key recommendations for each. So Dr. Anadkat, starting with what is recommended for the identification, evaluation, and management of rash or inflammatory dermatitis?

MILAN ANADKAT: Thank you, Brittany. And thank you Dr. Naing for teeing up this discussion. I think, as was mentioned, there are three major categories of cutaneous toxicity that are seen from immunotherapy. By and large, the most common is rash or inflammatory dermatitis, from which there are multiple different phenotypes or looks by which physicians may be seeing.

The most common phenotypes within rash or inflammatory dermatitis, which account for over 90% of the cutaneous toxicity seen from immunotherapy, include lichenoid, which is a purple, flat topped bumpy rash that can involve the skin or the mucosal membranes. The psoriasiform, which resembles psoriasis, morbilliform, or oftentimes, maculopapular, which resembles a measles-like pink exanthem over the trunk, or generalized eczema and itching. So what's important is identifying the particular phenotype and categorizing it as an inflammatory dermatosis and excluding the other two phenotypes of cutaneous toxicity, such as bullous dermatoses or Severe Cutaneous Adverse Reactions.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great, and then moving into that second category that you both mentioned, what are the key recommendations for bullous dermatoses?

MILAN ANADKAT: And so the key phenotypes for bullous dermatoses, by and large, is bullous pemphagoid, which is the most common phenotype seen in this category. Although other phenotypes resembling autoimmune bullous diseases, such as pemphigus or bullous drug reactions may also be seen. With bullous pemphigoid we see tense blisters, or tense bullae, frequently overlying a bed of erythema on the skin. Patients typically complain of considerable itching, far more than pain, with this category of eruption.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Got it. Thank you for reviewing that for bullous dermatoses. So then the third group is Severe Cutaneous Adverse Reactions. So what are the key recommendations there?

MILAN ANADKAT: And so the third group, being Severe Cutaneous Adverse Reactions, is a term used worldwide to encompass conditions such as Stevens-Johnson syndrome, toxic epidermal necrolysis, acute generalized exanthematous pustulosis, and DRESS or drug reaction with eosinophilia and systemic symptoms. These are, fortunately, rare, but can be life threatening skin eruptions.

They account for less than 1% of all skin reactions seen from immunotherapy. When practitioners are approaching a patient who may potentially have one of these conditions, patients typically will exhibit symptoms of malaise, fatigue, fever, and a dramatic cutaneous eruption, which will either present with peeling or sloughing of the top layers of the skin, or a generalized erythema covered with multiple sterile pinpoint pustules. Oftentimes, there are associated symptoms of lymphadenopathy and organ toxicity that is noticed simultaneously, such as hepatotoxicity, or eosinophilia, or acute renal failure.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great, I appreciate you reviewing the identification of all three of those groups. So then I'd like to hear from you both on this last question. But in your view, how will these recommendations for the management of cutaneous toxicities impact both clinicians and patients?

AUNG NAING: I would say that recognition of the toxicity is really important, particularly if you can actually catch the toxicity when it is in the mild grade. If you take care of them, then you can actually stop them from being mild to severe toxicity. That's number one. Number 2 is in that way, we may not have to halt or stop the immunotherapy treatment that could be beneficial to the patients.

And also, working together with the dermatologists is very important, because as I discussed earlier, some of them, we could take care of as an outpatient. But there will be certain dermatology toxicities, where we need to work closely with our dermatologists. And please also remember that these are the guidelines. You will be seeing the patient in the setting. So I think using that guideline and clinical judgment, that would actually help our patients at large.

MILAN ANADKAT: I think that's excellent. One, I think, important aspect of these guidelines is not only to correctly identify the phenotypes of cutaneous toxicity, but as Dr. Naing mentioned, it assists in management of these toxicities. The goal of these guidelines, especially as it pertains to the skin toxicity, is to accurately identify what toxicity is occurring for the patient, but then more importantly, to guide on appropriate management strategies to allow the patient to continue on immunotherapy and minimize or avoid unnecessary treatment interruption or treatment discontinuation.

The guidelines assist in management strategies according to the severity by which patients present. And as mentioned, I think ultimate priority will be given to the practitioner directly treating the patient. But consideration towards not only extent of body surface area involved, but severity of cutaneous eruption is thoroughly reviewed. And in addition to phenotype, including such patient reported outcomes, such as degree of pain, itch, or interruption on activities of daily living help guide the degree of management that can be provided.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Those are excellent points. I want to thank you so much for your work on these guidelines and for taking the time to speak with me today, Dr. Naing and Dr. Anadkat.

AUNG NAING: Thank you.

MILAN ANADKAT: Thank you.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines podcast series. Stay tuned for additional episodes on the management of immune-related adverse events. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/supportive care guidelines. You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app, available in iTunes or the Google Play store. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast. And be sure to subscribe, so you never miss an episode.

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An interview with Dr. Bryan Schneider from the University of Michigan Health System and Dr. Kathryn Bollin from Scripps MD Anderson Cancer Center, co-chairs of the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events Guideline Expert Panel. They discuss an overview of the "Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update" in Part 1 of this 13-part series. For more information visit www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

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SPEAKER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network, a collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts. My name is Brittany Harvey, and I want to introduce you to our series on the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events. ASCO has developed two guidelines for the management of immune-related adverse events, one for patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy and a second for patients treated with CAR T-cell therapy.

Today, we'll be focusing on an overview of the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update. And we'll have authors join us for future episodes to discuss the key recommendations for organ-specific management for patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy and an episode to discuss the management of immune-related adverse effects in patients treated with CAR T-cell therapy.

Today, I am joined by Dr. Bryan Schneider from the University of Michigan Health System in Ann Arbor, Michigan, and Dr. Kathryn Bollin from Scripps MD Anderson Cancer Center in San Diego, California, co-chairs on Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy, ASCO Guideline Update and authors of the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy, ASCO Guideline. Thank you for being here, Dr. Schneider and Dr. Bollin.

BRYAN SCHNEIDER: Thank you, Brittany.

KATHRYN BOLLIN: Thank you for having us.

BRITTANY HARVEY: I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The full conflict of interest information for this guideline panel is available online with the publication of the guidelines in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. Dr. Schneider, do you have any relevant disclosures that are related to this guideline?

BRYAN SCHNEIDER: I have research funding to my institution from Bristol Myers Squibb and Genentech Roche at the time of panel formation.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. And, Dr. Bollin, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to this guideline?

KATHRYN BOLLIN: No disclosures.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. Then, let's talk about this guideline. So first, Dr. Schneider, what prompted this update to the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy Guideline last published in 2018?

BRYAN SCHNEIDER: Yeah. The previous guideline was widely used and consistently one of the top read articles of the JCO over the last couple of years. And since the original guideline publication in 2018, new data have emerged on the management of immune checkpoint inhibitor toxicities. So our goal was to build on the original guideline with more treatment options, especially for patients who fail initial steroid treatment. New strategies have developed for the management of many toxicities, especially GI, cardiac, and heme toxicities. And ASCO and the panel felt it was important to present these new options to the providers in the community.

We also wanted to add sections that the providers would find valuable, including a table with many of the immunosuppressive agents used with typical dosages and schedules. We also added a table of commonly conducted testing while patients are on high-dose steroids as this is something many medical oncologists may not be used to handling as we typically do not have patients on steroids at high doses for several weeks or even months.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Understood. Then, in addition to those updates that Dr. Schneider just mentioned, Dr. Bollin, what is the general scope and purpose of this guideline?

KATHRYN BOLLIN: Yes. So the immune-related adverse event management guideline update and the CAR T-cell toxicity guideline serve to provide physicians that are prescribing these therapies with an understanding of the wide range of known potential toxicities of these agents and the best available evidence-based and expert opinion recommendations for their management. So up to 70% of patients treated with immune checkpoints will experience some form of immune-related adverse event, and nearly all patients getting CAR T-cell therapies experience toxicity. So recognition of the occurrence of these toxicities and appropriate management are essential for optimizing patient outcomes.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Definitely, those are key points. So then, Dr. Schneider, what are the overarching recommendations for the management of immune-related adverse events irrespective of the affected organ?

BRYAN SCHNEIDER: I think early recognition of the side effect is critical. So the guideline has typical signs and symptoms of each toxicity to help clinicians decide if this is occurring in their patients. Second, I think it's critical to grade the toxicity. We often don't do that with side effects related to traditional chemotherapy outside of clinical trials. So for example, if a patient has a platelet count of 75, I can't think off the top of my head what grade that is. I just know I'm going to hold chemotherapy for a week or two. But grading of the toxicity of these immune checkpoint therapies really is very important to decide whether patients can just be watched, whether they need to start steroids or whether they need to be admitted.

I think still corticosteroids and dose holds are the first steps that clinicians will do. The majority of these toxicities-- although it would be nice if we could personalize the treatment based on the particular side effect and what we see under the microscope if the particular affected organ is biopsied, I think, in broad strokes, corticosteroids can be implemented easily, and a lot of our oncologists can be comfortable doing this potentially without subspecialty help.

Having said that, I think multidisciplinary care is a must for the higher-grade side effects as, in oncology, we can't pretend to also be cardiologists, gastroenterologists, neurologists, dermatologist, and so on. And although there may be varying degrees of comfort from our subspecialists regarding the management of these toxicities, we do need their help for shared decision making, especially for the steroid refractory toxicities. We always want to emphasize a slow steroid taper oftentimes over at least four to six weeks. We get into trouble when we try to get them off the steroid quickly because they do have side effects that the patient may not enjoy. But oftentimes, we try to taper them quickly, and the side effect comes roaring back.

And then, finally, to escalate immunosuppression quickly if no improvement with high-dose steroids is observed, oftentimes, that's done even within just a few days. But commonly, in practice, there's still hope that the steroid will kick in two or three weeks down the road, and that's not a good strategy. If the patient's having significant symptoms and steroids aren't helping, they do need to go on to a more important immunosuppressant.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Those are important notes on the overarching management, particularly on how the adverse effects are different than those in patients treated with chemotherapy and the importance of multidisciplinary care. So then, Dr. Bollin, in your view, how will this guideline impact clinical practice?

KATHRYN BOLLIN: So the impact of this guideline update is actually very broad. As with the previous guideline, as Dr. Schneider alluded to earlier, it's been very frequently accessed by readers since it offers symptom outlines and algorithmic recommendations for early identification and the management of immune-related adverse events based on the severity and organ system involved. What's really important to understand is that while initially, as hematology-oncology physicians prescribing these agents, we're doing so in the setting of early phase clinical trials. We were learning about the toxicities, and those physicians were often managing the toxicities themselves. But now, with the exponential increase and the therapeutic indications for immune checkpoint therapies in cancer, the experience with the toxicities and their management and the questions have also followed suit with an exponential rise.

With this guideline update, we have experts among all of the internal medicine subspecialties that are now guiding the hematology-oncology physicians in immune-related adverse event management. We enlisted the experts in crafting this guideline update. So in summary, this serves not only as a tool for the prescribing hematology-oncology physicians but also for all of the subspecialists in the community and within academic centers for optimizing patient outcomes in the setting of immune-related adverse events.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Yeah, it sounds like this update will be hugely important for practicing clinicians. So then, in addition to those points raised by Dr. Bollin, Dr. Schneider, what are the implications for patients receiving immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy?

BRYAN SCHNEIDER: So we really hope this will be an essential tool to help providers quickly treat patients when these toxicities present. Often, this is unexpected, and busy clinicians may be blindsided by these issues. So these guidelines will provide a quick resource to guide the workup and formulate a treatment plan that will expedite patient recovery. And ultimately, this should help promote quality of life for patients on these therapies and may help reduce trips to the emergency department, hospitalizations, and potentially allow the safe rechallenge of immune checkpoint therapy after resolution of the side effect.

Many centers have the advantage of subspecialty support with experience in managing these toxicities. But for providers who may not have immediate access to, say, hepatology or endocrinology, we hope these guidelines will help the oncology providers provide the best treatment to facilitate the optimal clinical outcome.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Absolutely, those are key for optimal care. Then, finally, Dr. Bollin, looking toward the future, what are the important outstanding questions and developing areas of research for the management of immune-related adverse events?

KATHRYN BOLLIN: So while our recognition of immune-related adverse events, the testing for them, and management strategies have greatly improved with the expanded use of and experience with these therapies, large gaps in our knowledge remain. Translational and basic science research efforts are underway to understand these gaps, such as with the intrinsic and extrinsic drivers of autoimmunity, such as those with HLA allelic variations and the microbiomes interplay with our immune systems.

There are also research efforts underway to develop rapid diagnostic tests to deploy early in the onset of irAE signs and symptoms and for the development of biomarkers and modeling tools that will aid us in predicting which patients are likely to experience immune-related adverse events. There have also been some interventional protocols that have attempted to prevent these immune-related adverse events by incorporating immune suppressants along with therapeutic agents. But so far, promising results with this strategy remain elusive.

In regard to treatment for immune-related adverse events, investigators are working to learn the best strategies for selective immune suppression rather than just the use of glucocorticoids that will control immune-related adverse events while maintaining the clinical benefit of these incredible anticancer therapies.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you for highlighting those research gaps and both of you for your efforts to lead this guideline update. We'll be joined by authors on the guideline over the next episodes to review the key recommendations for organ-specific management in patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitors and to review the recommendations for patients receiving CAR T-cell therapy. Stay tuned for these episodes highlighting the sections of the guidelines. And thank you for your time today, Dr. Schneider and Dr. Bollin.

KATHRYN BOLLIN: Thank you so much.

BRYAN SCHNEIDER: Thank you.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series. To read the full guideline, go to www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines. You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app available in iTunes or the Google Play store. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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An interview with Dr. Bianca Santomasso from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center and Dr. Monalisa Ghosh from the University of Michigan Health System, authors on "Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy: ASCO Guideline." They discuss recommendations for management of irAEs in patients treated with CAR T-Cell Therapy in Part 2 of this 13-part series. For more information visit www.asco.org/supportive-care-guidelines

TRANSCRIPT

[MUSIC PLAYING]

SPEAKER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

[MUSIC PLAYING]

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines podcast series brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network. A collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content, and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at asco.org/podcasts.

My name is Brittany Harvey, and today we're continuing our series on the management of immune-related adverse events. ASCO has developed two guidelines for the management of immune-related adverse events-- one for patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy and a second for patients treated with CAR T-cell therapy.

In our last episode, you heard an overview of the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update. Today, we'll be focusing on the Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy: ASCO Guideline, and we'll have authors join us for future episodes to discuss the key recommendations for organ-specific management for patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitor therapy.

Today, I am joined by Dr. Monalisa Ghosh, from the University of Michigan Health System in Ann Arbor, Michigan and Dr. Bianca Santomasso from Memorial Sloan Kettering Cancer Center in New York, New York, authors on both Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated with Chimeric Antigen Receptor T-Cell Therapy: ASCO Guideline and Management of Immune-Related Adverse Events in Patients Treated With Immune Checkpoint Inhibitor Therapy: ASCO Guideline Update.

Thank you both for being here, Dr. Ghosh and Dr. Santomasso. In addition, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO Conflict of Interest policy is followed for each guideline.

The full Conflict of Interest information for this guideline panel is available online with the publication of the guidelines in the Journal of Clinical Oncology. Dr. Ghosh, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to this guideline?

MONALISA GHOSH: No. I do not have any relevant disclosures.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. And, Dr. Santomasso, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to this guideline?

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: Yes. I'd like to disclose that I've served as a paid consultant for Celgene, Janssen Pharmaceutical, and Legend Biotech for advising them on the topics of CAR T-cell therapy side effects.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. Then, getting into these immune-related adverse events-- first, Dr. Ghosh, can you give us an overview of the scope and purpose of this guideline?

MONALISA GHOSH: Sure. The purpose of this guideline is to offer expert guidance and recommendations on the management of immune-related adverse events in patients treated with chimeric antigen receptor or CAR T-cell therapy.

This guideline offers guidance on the diagnosis, evaluation, and management of the most common toxicities of CAR T-cell therapy, which includes Cytokine Release Syndrome-- or CRS-- and immune effector associated neurologic syndrome-- or ICANS.

As well as other potential, but less common toxicities, such as Hemophagocytic Lymphohistiocytosis-- or HLH-- B-cell aplasia, prolonged and recurrent cytopenias, Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation-- or DIC-- and infections.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Thank you. Then, Dr. Santomasso-- looking at this guideline, there's a few overarching recommendations. So, what are those general recommendations for the management of immune-related adverse events in patients receiving CAR T-cell therapy?

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: Yes. The overarching recommendations are, really, first to recognize that these side effects exist. And that, as such, it's important to recognize that patients who develop these toxicities or side effects after CAR T-cell therapy need to be evaluated, or managed in, or transferred to a specialty center that has experience with the management of these toxicities.

They're new toxicities. This is a new therapy. And patients are increasingly going to be managed in, or treated in, the outpatient setting, and, as such, they need to remain within a short distance of the treating center for about four to eight weeks post-therapy, and they should then return to their treating center upon experiencing any toxicities.

Finally, as its flu season and infection season, it is recommended that inactivated influenza and COVID-19 vaccination be performed on patients and also family members as well. And any patient who does have an active infection, the CAR T-cell infusion should be delayed until that infection has been successfully treated or controlled.

I often make a final point, which is that the immunogenicity of and efficacy of COVID-19 vaccines is uncertain in these patients with these agents, but the potential benefits outweigh the risks and uncertainties for most patients.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. Those are important points for patients and treating clinicians. So then, Dr. Ghosh-- as you mentioned, this guideline addresses the seven most common CAR-T-related toxicities, and I'd like to review the key recommendations for each of those.

So let's start with, what are the key recommendations for identification, evaluation, and management of cytokine-release syndrome?

MONALISA GHOSH: Well, Cytokine Release Syndrome is one of the two major toxicities that occur immediately or within a short time period after infusion of CAR T-cells. We have defined Cytokine Release Syndrome, or CRS, as an immune-mediated phenomenon that's characterized by various symptoms that are indicative of immune activation and inflammation.

And patients may experience signs and symptoms that could include fever, hypotension, hypoxia, tachycardia, shortness of breath, rash, nausea, headache, and various other symptoms that are a little less common. These symptoms are caused primarily by the release of cytokines.

Cytokines are the messengers of the immune system, and most of them are released by bystander immune and non-immune cells. We know that the onset of Cytokine Release Syndrome is variable depending on the CAR T-cell product that's used, as well as the patient population that's treated.

But it generally occurs anywhere from two to seven days after infusion of CAR T-cells, and in some rare cases can occur even a little bit later. A standard grading system has been developed and grade CRS, or Cytokine Release Syndrome, based on three parameters-- fever, hypotension, or low blood pressure; and hypoxia or low oxygen levels.

CRS is primarily managed with IL-6 antagonists because IL-6 is an inflammatory cytokine that has been shown to mediate a lot of the systemic effects that we see from Cytokine Release Syndrome. And one of the treatments is the monoclonal antibody tocilizumab, which acts against-- or blocks-- the IL-6 receptor.

CRS that is refractory to tocilizumab is generally treated with steroids. Then there's limited experience with additional therapies, especially in the setting of CRS, that does not respond to tocilizumab or steroids. There are other anti IL-6 therapies available. For example, siltuximab, which binds to IL-6 itself rather than the IL-6 receptor. However, there have been no direct comparative studies of these agents. Anakinra, which is also an IL-1 receptor antagonist has also been shown to mitigate CRS in some CAR T-cell recipients that have high grade CRS.

BRITTANY HARVEY: OK. Thank you for reviewing those management strategies. So, following that-- Dr. Santomasso, what are key recommendations for identification, evaluation, and management of immune effector cell-associated neurotoxicity syndrome?

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: Sure. Immune Effector Cell-associated Neurotoxicity Syndrome-- also known as ICANS-- is the second most frequent severe toxicity that can be seen after CAR T-cell therapy. So, what is ICANS? These are transient neurological symptoms that occur in the days after infusion, most commonly with CD19 CAR T-cell therapy.

And the clinical manifestations of ICANS include encephalopathy, which is confusion, behavioral changes, expressive aphasia, or other language disturbance, change in handwriting or other fine motor impairment or weakness, and tremor and headache can also be seen.

In more severe cases, patients can become obtunded with a depressed level of consciousness or even develop seizures, and they may require a higher level of ICU care, such as intubation for airway protection. And in very rare cases, malignant cerebral edema may develop, which may be fatal.

ICANS can occur at the same time as Cytokine Release Syndrome, or can also occur several days after or shortly after CRS resolves, so it's important to have a high index of suspicion even after Cytokine Release Syndrome has resolved, but typically the side effects are self-limited and occur within the one month after infusion.

Most symptoms lasts between 5 and 17 days, and the time of onset duration and severity of ICANS may really vary depending on the CAR T-cell product used or the disease state of the patient. So, what do I mean by that? Patients with high disease burden seem to be at increased risk for severe ICANS, so kind of knowing the disease that the patient has and the burden of disease is important.

And then also there may be product-specific differences as well, so reviewing the product label is important as well because each may have its own risk evaluation and mitigation strategies that inform both the duration and the frequency of monitoring for ICANS after infusion.

For evaluation of ICANS, we recommend, again, the ASTCT ICANS grading system. These allow for monitoring of several different aspects of neurologic function in these patients. Mental status changes are really what define the onset of ICANS.

So for CRS, it's fever; for ICANS, it's mental status changes. And the severity of the mental status change can be determined by a standardized score known as the ICE score, which stands for Immune Effector Cell-associated Encephalopathy score.

This is a simple 10-point scoring metric where points are assigned for orientation to year, month, city, hospital, ability to name three objects, ability to follow simple commands, write a standard sentence, and count backwards from 100 by tens.

And for children younger than age 12 or those with developmental delay, The Cornell Assessment of Pediatric Delirium, also known as the CAPD, can be used in placement of the ICE assessment. Prior to CAR infusion, patients should be evaluated, including with an ICE score, for their baseline neurologic status.

And what's nice is that this ICE assessment can be used as a daily screen after CAR infusion for the onset of ICANS during at-risk period. Then, other than the ICE score, there are four other neurologic domains that contribute to ICANS grading, and that's level of consciousness, seizures, severe motor weakness, and signs and symptoms of elevated intracranial pressure or cerebral edema, and patients are graded according to the most severe symptom in any of the five domains.

So for patients who develop ICANS, it's recommended that they have workup, including blood work, CRP, CBC, comprehensive metabolic panel, fibrinogen, and coagulation tests. Neuroimaging with a non-contrast CT of the brain should be done and considering MRI of the brain in patients who are stable enough.

In addition, electroencephalogram and lumbar puncture should be considered. And the electroencephalogram is really to rule out subclinical seizures, and the lumbar puncture is to assess the opening pressure-- or the pressure within the central nervous system-- and also to send studies to rule out infection. And again, these all have to be considered on an individual case by case basis, but are things to keep in mind.

So for treatment of ICANS, the mainstay of treatment is, really, supportive care and corticosteroids. Tocilizumab, while it seems to rapidly resolve Cytokine Release Syndrome and most symptoms, actually does not resolve ICANS and may worsen it, so steroids are really typically used.

The typical steroid is dexamethasone at a dose of 10 milligrams, and the interval really depends on the grade of the ICANS. Because of the possibility that tocilizumab may worsen neurotoxicity, ICANS really takes precedence over low grade CRS when the two occur simultaneously.

And patients who don't show improvement within 24 hours after starting steroids or other supportive measures should have CSF evaluation and neuroimaging. Often treatment of seizures-- many patients are put on Keppra and levetiracetam or other anti-seizure medicine if they develop ICANS, and patients with grade 3 or greater ICANS may need an ICU level of care and escalation of steroid doses.

The steroids are continued until ICANS improves to grade 1 and then tapered as clinically appropriate. And the most important thing to remember is that ICANS just needs to be monitored very closely as patients may worsen as some steroids are tapered. They also may improve rapidly after steroids are started, so steroids should be tapered quickly as patients improve.

And, again, as with CRS, there's limited experience with other agents, such as Anakinra and siltuximab, but those could be considered in severe or refractory cases.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Understood. I appreciate you going through when and how clinicians should screen for ICANS and those key management points. So, in addition to that-- Dr. Ghosh, what are the key recommendations regarding cytopenias?

MONALISA GHOSH: So cytopenias can occur post-CAR T-cell infusion, and they can occur either in the early phase or in the later phase after CAR T-cell infusion. Meaning that they can occur early within the first few days to weeks post-CAR T-cell therapy or could even occur months to years later.

These cytopenias include anemia, thrombocytopenia, leukopenia, neutropenia. Many patients may present with fatigue, weakness, shortness of breath, lightheadedness, frequent infections, fevers, bruising, and bleeding, and the symptoms usually are consistent with how they would present otherwise with anemia, thrombocytopenia, or neutropenia.

Acute cytopenias within three months of CAR T-cell therapy are more common. This is due to usually the lymphodepleting chemotherapy that is administered prior to CAR T-cell therapy. Most patients receive a combination of fludarabine and cyclophosphamide prior to CAR T-cell infusion, or they may receive another agent, such as bendamustine. Most patients also come into CAR T-cell therapy with low lymphocyte counts from previous therapies.

Early cytopenias, as I mentioned, are generally due to lymphodepleting chemotherapy or other recent therapies. There also could be an immune-mediated process due to the CAR T-cells. Usually prolonged cytopenias which occur beyond three months post-CAR T-cell infusion can be seen in a small number of patients.

And the mechanism of prolonged cytopenias is really unclear at this time, but likely multifactorial. Most recipients of CAR T-cells who have prolonged cytopenias beyond three months post-CAR T-cell infusion should have a standard workup to rule out other common causes, such as vitamin or nutritional deficiencies.

They should also have testing such as bone marrow biopsy and scans to rule out relapse disease-- relapse lymphoma or leukemia, for instance, that could be causing these cytopenias. Other examples would be myelodysplastic syndrome or other bone marrow failure syndromes. So cytopenias are generally managed with supportive care including growth factor and transfusion support. This applies to both cytopenias in the early period post-CAR T-cell therapy or more delayed prolonged cytopenias.

In patients who have prolonged cytopenias of unclear cause that could be immune-mediated, other interventions such as high dose IVIG or even steroids could be considered depending on the situation. For those that have cytopenias in the first few months post-CAR T-cell therapy, generally they are monitored and treated with supportive care, and these cytopenias eventually resolve in the majority of patients.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Those are important considerations. Then, Dr. Santomasso, what are the key recommendations regarding Hemophagocytic Lymphohistiocytosis?

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: The major recommendations for the identification, evaluation, and management of Hemophagocytic Lymphohistiocytosis, or HLH-- this is also known as macrophage activation syndrome. First, let's just start by saying that this is a dysfunctional immune response, and it's basically characterized by macrophages which are revved up and hyperactive and also possibly lymphocytes as well.

There are high levels of pro-inflammatory cytokines during this state and tissue infiltration, and hemophagocytosis, and organ damage. This can occur outside of the context of CAR T-cell therapy, either as a primary HLH or secondary HLH that can be either triggered by infections, or autoimmune disease, or cancer-- especially hematological malignancies, but HLH has also been observed as a rare complication of CAR T-cell therapy. And outside of the setting of CAR T-cell therapy, HLH is defined by fever, cytopenias, hyperferritinemia-- or high ferritin level-- as well as bone marrow hemophagocytosis.

And what's interesting is that this is very similar to what's seen during Cytokine Release Syndrome, and that can make it difficult for patients who have moderate to severe CRS to distinguish that from HLH. The laboratory results may be very similar. So the key to recognizing HLH is really to have it on your differential even though it occurs rarely after CAR T-cell therapy. It may occur with slightly different timing and may require more aggressive treatment.

The lab alterations can include, again, as I mentioned, these elevated levels of several cytokines, such as interferon gamma. We can't normally send those in the hospital or the clinic, but sometimes soluble IL-2 receptor alpha can be sent and serum ferritin can be sent, and that's an especially useful marker.

There have been diagnostic criteria for CAR T-cell-induced HLH that have been proposed, and these conclude very high ferritin levels-- over 10,000-- and at least two organ toxicities that are at least grade 3, such as transaminitis, increased bilirubin, renal insufficiency or oliguria, or a pulmonary edema, or evidence of hemophagocytosis in bone marrow or organs.

Unlike other forms of HLH that occur outside of the context of CAR T-cell therapy, the patients may not have hepatosplenomegaly, lymphadenopathy, or overt evidence of hemophagocytosis. So just because a patient may not show those yet doesn't mean that HLH shouldn't be considered.

If we see patients that have a persistent fever without an identified infection source or worsening fever, we basically should be considering HLH and doing the appropriate workup and treatment. Patients with HLH often have low fibrinogen, high triglycerides, and also cytopenias as well.

The treatment-- just as there's an overlap kind of in the signs and symptoms, the treatment and the clinical management overlaps as well with CRS, so tocilizumab is typically administered. But corticosteroids should really be added for these patients, especially if there's clinical worsening or grade 3 or greater organ toxicity.

And if there's insufficient response after 48 hours of corticosteroid therapy plus tocilizumab, many centers consider adding another medication such as Anakinra. I'll finally make a comment that, outside of the context of CAR T-cell therapy, HLH is sometimes treated with cytotoxic chemotherapy, such as etoposide.

This approach generally is not used as a first line for patients undergoing CAR T-cell therapy due to etopiside's documented toxicity to T lymphocytes. And generally, the corticosteroids, plus the anti IL-6 agent, plus Anakinra is considered the first line of management.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Got it. That's an important note on the management of HLH, and a great note on distinguishing CRS and HLH. So in addition, Dr. Ghosh-- what are the recommendations for management of B-cell aplasia?

MONALISA GHOSH: B-cell aplasia, it's a disorder that's caused by low numbers or absent B-cells. And this is particularly relevant to CD19 directed CAR T-cell therapy, which is what most of the CAR T-cell therapies that are available right now target. They target CD19, and CD19 is present on normal as well as malignant B-cells.

So most patients who receive anti-CD19 CAR T-cell therapy will develop B-cell aplasia at some point, and B-cell aplasia may be temporary or prolonged. It usually does, on one hand, indicate ongoing activity of the CD19 CAR T-cells and can be used as a surrogate marker.

And increase in CD19 CAR T-cells could, in some patients, signal impending relapse, or dysfunction, or absence of activity of CD19 CAR T-cells. B-cell aplasia in CAR T-cell recipients is really due to, as I mentioned, an on-target, off-tumor effect. It can be prolonged and there is variability in rates of prolonged B-cell aplasia.

The most significant consequence of B-cell aplasia is that it can lead to low immunoglobulin production. And immunoglobulin production is a very important part of the immune response by providing antibody-mediated immunity, so patients may present with frequent infections and low immunoglobulin levels.

For most CAR T-cell recipients, this can be managed with infusions of Intravenous Immunoglobulins-- IVIG. However, the presence of B-cell aplasia can also present other challenges-- especially during this current pandemic, as Dr. Santomasso alluded to earlier, that it is unclear if patients will be able to mount a sufficient enough antibody response to the COVID-19 vaccines available since they cannot produce significant amounts of antibodies. This is an active area of research. However, we do advise that all CAR T-cell recipients do get the COVID vaccine and also other seasonal vaccines, such as the influenza vaccine.

So it remains to be seen. We need some more long-term follow-up studies on how many people who receive CD19-directed CAR T-cell therapy will have prolonged B-cell aplasia and what the consequences will be. At this time, it is suggested that patients have their IgG levels monitored and-- if possible-- their actual B-cell numbers monitored.

And if their IgG levels drop below a certain number, then they may receive IVIG infusions intermittently. We recommend in this guideline using 400 as a possible cutoff for IgG levels prior to administering IVIG. However, if patients have higher IgG levels and they have recurrent or life threatening infections, infusion of IVIG is recommended as a consideration to help boost the antibody response.

BRITTANY HARVEY: OK. As you mentioned, those challenges are particularly relevant now. So then, Dr. Santomasso, what are the key recommendations regarding Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation?

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation is a disorder that's characterized by systemic pathological activation of blood clotting mechanisms, which results in both clot formation throughout the body and also bleeding. There's an increased risk of hemorrhage as the body is depleted of platelets and other coagulation factors.

So it's basically important for clinicians to be aware that DIC-- or Disseminated Intravascular Coagulation-- can occur after CAR T-cell therapy, and it can occur either with or without concurrent Cytokine Release Syndrome. The treatment is primarily supportive care and replacing the factors, such as fibrinogen-- based on the levels-- and also replacing factors based on partial thromboplastin time and bleeding occurrences.

But corticosteroids and IL-6 antagonist therapy can be used if there is concurrent CRS or in the setting of severe bleeding complications. There is limited evidence for other interventions.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Appreciate you reviewing those. So then, the last category of toxicity addressed in this guideline-- Dr. Ghosh, what are the key recommendations for identification, evaluation, and management of infections?

MONALISA GHOSH: So a variety of infections can be seen after CAR T-cell therapy. And there are many factors that can lead to infection after CAR T-cell therapy including the presence of cytokines, such as neutropenia or leukopenia and B-cell aplasia that we earlier discussed-- leading to low immunoglobulin production and protection.

As well as the increased risk of infection due to use of high-dose steroids to treat CAR T-cell-related toxicities, such as ICANS or CRS. Early after the infusion of CAR T-cell therapy-- that is, within three months-- patients often develop neutropenia due to lymphodepleting chemotherapy and/or the CAR T-cells themselves.

And these patients are particularly susceptible to infection, so most of the infections that occur early on tend to be bacterial infections, and a few fungal infections have been observed as well. Patients who receive high-dose steroids for high grade CRS or ICANS have been shown to have increased serious infectious complications including bacterial infections, fungal infections, as well as viral reactivations.

Infectious complications that occur later are often due to hypogammaglobulinemia due to B-cell aplasia and reduced production of immunoglobulins. And treatment is typically directed at the infectious source, as it would be even if these patients did not have CAR T-cell therapy.

There are some prophylactic antimicrobials that are recommended for CAR T-cell recipients who have prolonged cytopenias. Especially those with prolonged neutropenia should be on some sort of bacterial and/or fungal prophylactic antimicrobials.

Patients should also be monitored for hypogammaglobulinemia long term and should receive intravenous immunoglobulins as needed. As we have mentioned a couple of times already, being very aware that these patients are also more susceptible to seasonal infection, such as influenza, is important, and so vaccinations are very important for this patient population. Vaccinating against influenza and vaccinating against COVID-19.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you both for reviewing those key points for the most common CAR T-related toxicities. So, just to wrap us up-- Dr. Santomasso-- in your view, how will this guideline impact both clinicians and patients?

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: Well, I think we've seen now that cell therapy is really one of the major advances in cancer treatment in the past decade. And I think it's reasonable to expect more of these cell therapies to be developed, and we'll hopefully see their use extend beyond very specialized centers.

But CAR T-cell therapy side effects are manageable if they're recognized, so I think this guideline helps that, and they're reversible with proper supportive care. They can be serious and they require close vigilance and prompt treatment. But, again, we believe this guideline and recommendations will help members of clinical teams with both the recognition and management of all of these toxicities, and that will help patients by increasing their safety.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. That's important to note that these toxicities can be severe, but are also manageable. So I want to thank you both for your work on these guidelines and for taking the time to speak with me today, Dr. Santomasso and Dr. Ghosh.

BIANCA SANTOMASSO: Our pleasure.

MONALISA GHOSH: Absolutely. It was my pleasure.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines podcast series. Stay tuned for additional episodes on the management of immune-related adverse events in patients treated with immune checkpoint inhibitors. To read the full guidelines, go to www.asco.org/supportive care guidelines.

You can also find many of our guidelines and interactive resources in the free ASCO Guidelines app available in iTunes or the Google Play store. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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An interview with Dr. Manish Shah from New York Hospital and Weill Cornell Medicine, co-chair on "Immunotherapy in Patients with Locally Advanced Esophageal Carcinoma: ASCO Guideline Rapid Recommendation Update." He discusses the results of the Checkmate 577 trial and the updated recommendation of the Treatment of Locally Advanced Esophageal Carcinoma Guideline. For more information, visit www.asco.org/gastrointestinal-cancer-guidelines.

TRANSCRIPT

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SPEAKER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care, and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello, and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series, brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network, a collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at ASCO.org/podcasts.

My name is Brittany Harvey, and today I'm interviewing Dr. Manish Shah from New York Hospital and Weill Cornell Medicine in New York, NY, co-chair of the Locally Advanced Esophageal Carcinoma guideline expert panel and lead author on the Immunotherapy in Patients with Locally Advanced Esophageal Carcinoma: ASCO Guideline Rapid Recommendation Update. Thank you for being here, Dr. Shah.

MANISH SHAH: Absolutely. Thank you very much for having me.

BRITTANY HARVEY: First, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The full conflict of interest information for this guideline is available online. Dr. Shah, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to this guideline?

MANISH SHAH: Yes, so I do have relationships with many of the companies that make checkpoint inhibitors. And in fact, we are being supported by Bristol Myers Squibb on a first-line study of chemotherapy with nivolumab. We've also been supported by Merck on a pre-operative study of chemotherapy with radiation and pembrolizumab.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you for that information. Then so what prompted this rapid update to the Treatment of Locally Advanced Esophageal Carcinoma: ASCO Guideline?

MANISH SHAH: Yes, so recently there was a landmark study that was practice-changing in the space, published in the New England Journal of Medicine by Ronan Kelly and colleagues. And this was the report of CheckMate 577, the use of adjuvant nivolumab in resected esophageal or gastroesophageal junction carcinoma. And this was a positive study that led to important changes in practice. And we felt that this was worthy and worthwhile of getting it out there to the community.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. Then based off this new data from CheckMate 577 on nivolumab, what is the updated recommendation?

MANISH SHAH: Sure. So previously, the data available was that patients who receive chemotherapy and radiation and then went on to receive surgery, that those patients with esophageal cancer had no further treatment recommendations. This study, CheckMate 577, actually examined nivolumab in that context. So patients who received chemotherapy and radiation and then underwent surgery, if they had some residual disease at the time of the surgical resection, even if they had a major response but there was some residual cancer in the surgical specimen, patients were eligible for randomization. And about 800 patients were randomized, 2 to 1, to receive nivolumab versus placebo in this context.

And the primary endpoint in the study was disease-free survival. And patients who received nivolumab had a median disease-free survival of 22.4 months compared to placebo, which was the previous standard of care. The median disease-free survival in that group was 11.0 months, so almost a doubling of the disease-free survival. The hazard ratio was 0.69. And that was highly significant, with a p value of 0.001. So there was a 31% improvement in reducing the risk of recurrence with adjuvant nivolumab. So based on that trial, we have updated the guideline to recommend adjuvant nivolumab for patients who have received chemotherapy and radiation and surgery, and then had some residual disease in the surgical specimen.

A key distinction is that about 20% to 30% of patients will have had a pathologic complete response. These patients were not eligible for the trial. And so at this time, patients who have had a complete response, the current guidelines remain the same, where there's no further treatment indicated.

BRITTANY HARVEY: OK, it seems like this study provided a strong signal to update that recommendation. I appreciate you going through the details of that study, and particularly the patients that were eligible to participate. So then, how will this guideline impact patients with locally advanced esophageal cancer?

MANISH SHAH: Yeah, I think that this is a key thing. Because 70% to 75% of patients have residual disease at the time of resection. And still, even if you've had a major pathologic response, the risk of recurrence for many patients is still high, greater than 50%.

Of note also I'd highlight that the study included adenocarcinoma and squamous cell cancer. And the results were positive in both groups. So based on that, I think that this will be highly impactful for a majority of patients with esophageal cancer, both adenocarcinoma and squamous cell cancer, who, as I said, underwent chemoradiation and surgery and had residual disease in the surgical pathologic specimen.

BRITTANY HARVEY: That's good to hear that this will have a positive impact for these patients. So then what are the outstanding clinical questions regarding treatment of these patients?

MANISH SHAH: Yeah, so I think that there are a lot of outstanding questions. I think one question which is currently being studied is the use or integration of checkpoint inhibition therapy prior to surgery. So that's being examined in an inter-group study in the United States, as well as several company-sponsored studies across the globe. And a concept there is that, if you're giving chemotherapy with radiation and a checkpoint inhibitor all combined, you might be able to have even the higher benefit from activation of the immune system against the cancer than in the adjuvant setting where you're trying to treat microscopic minimal disease. So that's one question.

And the other key question, which was actually raised by the clinical trial itself was the CPS scoring system. So CPS means Combined Positive Score. This is a way to examine the level of PD-L1 expression in the tumor and its microenvironment. And it's not a great biomarker, but it's the best biomarker available. And it is predictive of who would benefit. So patients who have a higher CPS score are more likely to benefit from a checkpoint inhibitor. A post hoc analysis of this study suggested that tumors that had a CPS score of less than 5 had less benefit. So although the FDA approval for adjuvant nivolumab was independent of the CPS score, I think, with time, we'll have more information on the potential impact of CPS or other biomarkers on which patients really may benefit from adjuvant therapy.

So I think, on the positive end, patients now have options. And I think they're clinically significant and meaningful. But it does, as you point out, highlight new questions that will be answered in due course.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Great. And we'll look forward to the results of those studies that address some of those questions. So thank you for your efforts to issue this rapid update and for taking the time to speak with me today, Dr. Shah.

MANISH SHAH: Oh, absolutely. It was a pleasure to be here. Thanks so much, Brittany.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning into the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series. To read the full guideline, go to www.ASCO.org/gastrointestinal-cancer-guidelines. If you have enjoyed what you've heard today, please rate and review the podcast, and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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An interview with Dr. Nadine Tung and Dr. Dana Zakalik, co-chairs on "Adjuvant PARP Inhibitors in Patients with High-risk Early-Stage HER2-Negative Breast Cancer and Germline BRCA Mutations: ASCO Hereditary Breast Cancer Guideline Rapid Recommendation Update." They discuss the results and impact of the OlympiA trial, the updated recommendation, and outstanding questions on the use of PARP inhibitors in the adjuvant setting. For more information, visit www.asco.org/breast-cancer-guidelines.

TRANSCRIPT

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ANNOUNCER: The purpose of this podcast is to educate and to inform. This is not a substitute for professional medical care and is not intended for use in the diagnosis or treatment of individual conditions. Guests on this podcast express their own opinions, experience, and conclusions. The mention of any product, service, organization, activity, or therapy should not be construed as an ASCO endorsement.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Hello and welcome to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series, brought to you by the ASCO Podcast Network, a collection of nine programs covering a range of educational and scientific content, and offering enriching insight into the world of cancer care. You can find all the shows, including this one, at podcast.ASCO.org. My name is Brittany Harvey, and today I'm interviewing Dr. Nadine Tung from Beth Israel Deaconess Medical Center in Boston, Massachusetts, and Dr. Dana Zakalik from Beaumont Health in Royal Oak, Michigan, co-chairs of the Management of Hereditary Breast Cancer Guideline Expert Panel and this rapid recommendation update, Adjuvant PARP Inhibitors in Patients With High-Risk Early-Stage HER2-Negative Breast Cancer and Germline BRCA Mutations: ASCO Guideline Recommendation Update. Thank you for being here, Dr. Tung and Dr. Zakalik.

DR. ZAKALIK: Thank you for having us.

DR. TUNG: Thank you so much. Pleasure to be here.

BRITTANY HARVEY: First, I'd like to note that ASCO takes great care in the development of its guidelines and ensuring that the ASCO conflict of interest policy is followed for each guideline. The full conflict of interest information for this guideline panel is available online. Dr. Tung, do you have any relevant disclosures that are directly related to this guideline topic?

DR. TUNG: I do receive research funding from AstraZeneca, as I run a trial using a PARP inhibitor in breast cancer.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. And Dr. Zakalik, do you have any relevant disclosures?

DR. ZAKALIK: I do not.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Thank you. Then let's get into the meat of this rapid recommendation update. So, Dr. Tung, what prompted this rapid update to a recommendation from the Management of Hereditary Breast Cancer Guideline?

DR. TUNG: The OlympiA Trial, which was presented at ASCO this past June and published the same day in the "New England Journal of Medicine." OlympiA was a large Phase III trial, which demonstrated that a year of adjuvant olaparib, a PARP inhibitor, significantly improved both invasive disease-free survival by nearly 9%, and distant disease-free survival by a similar improvement, in germline BRCA mutation carriers with HER2-negative breast cancer and a high risk of recurrence. Overall survival was numerically better with olaparib, but it didn't yet reach significant improvement as a stringent p-value was required for this early reporting.

And I say early reporting because the trial was reported early after the first event-driven interim analysis showed a benefit with olaparib. 1,800 patients had been enrolled with a median follow up of 2 and 1/2 years at the reporting. But the follow up was 3 and 1/2 years for the first 900 patients enrolled, known as the maturity cohort. And it was comforting that the significant improvement in invasive disease-free survival and distant disease-free survival was also seen when just looking at that maturity cohort. So for those who might think that it's too early and that these benefits might not hold up with longer follow up, it's very comforting that in that maturity cohort with longer follow up, the results were really the same.

And last year, ASCO published guidelines on managing patients with hereditary breast cancer, including women with inherited BRCA mutations, meaning a pathogenic or likely pathogenic variant. At that time, PARP inhibitors were recommended only for BRCA carriers with metastatic disease, based on the OlympiAD and EMBRACE trials. So when OlympiA was published, we felt the need to update the guidelines to recommend olaparib in the early-stage setting for some germline BRCA carriers.

BRITTANY HARVEY: So then, based off this new data from the OlympiA trial, Dr. Zakalik, what is the updated recommendation from the guideline expert panel?

DR. ZAKALIK: The updated recommendation states that for patients with early-stage, HER2-negative breast cancer with a high risk of recurrence, and who carry a germline BRCA1 or 2 mutation, one year of adjuvant olaparib should be offered after completion of adjuvant or neoadjuvant chemotherapy and local treatment, including radiation therapy. And this data was specific to a high risk of recurrence subgroup of these patients, defined as, for those with triple-negative breast cancer having a tumor over two centimeters, or with any involved lymph nodes, or for those who received neoadjuvant chemo, any residual disease in the triple-negative setting was sufficient to qualify.

For patients with hormone receptor positive disease, these were high-risk patients for recurrence, again, and that was defined as having at least four positive lymph nodes, or any residual disease following neoadjuvant therapy. But in addition, having a clinical stage and pathologic stage estrogen receptor status and tumor grade, otherwise called the CPS+EG score, of greater than or equal to three, which is really defined as looking at estrogen receptor status grade and clinical and pathologic stage. So again, a high-risk group for risk of recurrence was included in this study. And again, in order to apply these findings, we have to be mindful of patients who meet these inclusion criteria as being high-risk for recurrence. Again, both in the triple-negative hormone receptor-positive setting, if they met these criteria, there was a significant benefit in terms of outcome in lowering the risk of recurrence.

BRITTANY HARVEY: I appreciate you going through that recommendation. So then, given that updated recommendation. Dr. Tung, what should clinicians know as they implement the use of adjuvant olaparib into clinical practice?

DR. TUNG: For those who have not used olaparib, it's worth saying that it's an oral medication. Typically patients take two pills twice a day. And it's important to be familiar with the side effects. I would say that generally, olaparib is well-tolerated. But it can have side effects. And the two most common are nausea, and then anemia. So for the nausea, we use the typical antiemetics we would use for any chemotherapy. And it's worth saying to patients who do have nausea that quite often, that lessens with time. It decreases. So I would say nausea's one of the side effects. Some patients can have fatigue, although I don't think that's all that common.

And anemia is the other one. And we do check bloodwork monthly for patients on olaparib. The anemia can come suddenly, even after months of really not having any. And grade 3 anemia was probably the most common, grade 3 or higher, toxicity that was seen in OlympiA, although it's only 9% of patients that had grade 3 or higher anemia. But I would say those are the two side effects to look for most. And then I think one other thing that's worth saying is that for the BRCA carriers with triple-negative breast cancer, currently our standard therapy for patients who have residual disease after neoadjuvant chemotherapy is capecitabine. But olaparib should not be given with capecitabine. There is no safety data for that. So oncologists are going to need to choose between what I think is our standard therapy right now, capecitabine, and olaparib. And there's no data directly comparing these two medications in the early-stage setting.

But in the metastatic setting in BRCA carriers, in both OlympiAD and EMBRACE, olaparib was compared to chemotherapy. And olaparib with superior. And in both of those studies, about half the women in the chemotherapy arms received capecitabine. And olaparib, again was superior. So olaparib may be the better choice in the early-stage setting. But I can't say that there's any direct data. But the message would be not to give them together. And I think it would be better probably not to give capecitabine first and then olaparib, because there's some data that the earlier you give a PARP inhibitor the better.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Those are important notes for clinicians and particularly for safety. So then building on that, Dr. Zakalik, how will this update impact patients with breast cancer?

DR. ZAKALIK: This data will significantly impact the therapeutic options that we have for patients with high-risk disease in the setting of a BRCA germline mutation. And that will happen in the sense that patients who have these certain specific features that render them high-risk will now be able to be offered a very impactful therapy that has been shown in this landmark study to significantly decrease their risk of recurrence. And these are patients who otherwise would face a significant risk of potentially facing a recurrence in the future. So the outcomes we anticipate to be dramatically improved for patients who have triple-negative or high-risk hormone receptor-positive breast cancer in the setting of a BRCA germline mutation.

But furthermore, whereas genetic testing in the past was predominantly focused on identifying individuals who are at high risk for developing breast cancer so that we can offer early detection or prevention options, this is the first time that we're able to broadly apply the benefit of molecular genetic testing for hereditary risk to therapy for patients with early nonmetastatic breast cancer. So as clinicians who see patients with breast cancer, it is further made more important to recognize what the guidelines are for genetic testing. To think of whether a patient meets criteria that are currently outlined for genetic testing, as this will have a significant potentially major impact on patients' outcome. And already in the clinic, we have been focused on recognizing who may have a BRCA mutation. Obviously, this data will make that even more important, because this therapy is so beneficial for patients. And I think going forward, it will fuel a discussion of possibly reevaluating who gets genetic testing, now that it's particularly important not to miss patients who have BRCA mutations when they develop breast cancer.

So I think that physicians who are in the clinic will not only have a therapeutic option, but also will be hopefully recognizing more patients who have a BRCA mutation in that the therapy is so markedly better now with this new data. And in the future, we may possibly expand our guidelines for testing. And I think that remains to be determined, based on a number of factors that go into this decision.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Well then, you've both touched on this a bit, regarding outstanding questions for both genetic testing and the use of capecitabine. But finally, Dr. Tung, given this recent study and guideline update, what are the outstanding questions regarding the use of PARP inhibitors in the adjuvant setting?

DR. TUNG: Right. We have already listed a couple. The capecitabine question is one that I won't repeat. And I think who gets tested would be another one that Dana just mentioned. I think a big one, as of yesterday, is immune therapy. Yesterday, the FDA approved pembrolizumab, based on the KEYNOTE-522 study for patients with triple-negative breast cancer. And that population in KEYNOTE was very similar to the one in OlympiA for BRCA carriers, namely patients with T2 tumors, or involved axillary lymph nodes. So for BRCA carriers, we're going to have to make some decisions here, namely, should they receive pembrolizumab and olaparib together, for those who have residual disease after neoadjuvant chemotherapy. I think everyone right now is digesting KEYNOTE-522 and this FDA approval. And so that's something that will have to be worked out.

I know in other diseases there is safety data for the combination of pembrolizumab and olaparib. But again, I think that's something that we're all going to have to sort out. I don't think there's going to be any data forthcoming immediately about the use of pembro, olaparib, and the combination, et cetera for our patients. So that's a big one I think another question that comes up is, how long after a BRCA carrier finishes their chemotherapy and local therapy are they eligible to take olaparib? What about patients that finished six months ago, or a year ago, or longer? And again, I don't think there are any data for that, and we're going to have to use some clinical judgment. There was precedent for this kind of question when adjuvant trastuzumab was approved and in 2005, when the adjuvant trials demonstrating such an impressive benefit for trastuzumab were announced and published.

I remember that we were administering trastuzumab to patients who'd completed their chemotherapy within the last year. So I think for many, that may be a timeline that makes sense. But again, there are no data. So still questions, and we're going to as always have to use some clinical judgment. And others, Dana, that you can think of?

DR. ZAKALIK: No. I think this is tremendously exciting new data. It really provides hope for patients who are young, often, when they're diagnosed. Because hereditary breast cancer tends to manifest itself at a young age. And so for our women in the prime of their life, when they have high risk and develop breast cancer, I think this just really gives us tremendous hope and opportunity for improving the lives and saving lives in the future of patients who have high-risk disease. Very exciting data.

DR. TUNG: Yeah, I agree completely. I think the investigators are really to be congratulated. This was a very large study. 1,800 BRCA carriers, international study. Very hard to do with a situation, a disease that's relatively uncommon. Only 3% to 5% of all breast cancer. So really a terrific effort with a significant, major impact for our BRCA carriers with breast cancer.

BRITTANY HARVEY: Definitely. This is an exciting update for patients with breast cancer. And we'll look forward to hearing more research about those outstanding questions that you mentioned. So I want to thank you both for your efforts to update this guideline recommendation so quickly, and provide evidence-based recommendations for both clinicians and patients. And thank you for taking the time to speak with me today, Dr. Zakalik and Dr. Tung.

DR. ZAKALIK: Thank you.

DR. TUNG: My pleasure.

BRITTANY HARVEY: And thank you to all of our listeners for tuning in to the ASCO Guidelines Podcast Series. For more information, visit www.ASCO.org/breast-cancer-guidelines. If you have enjoyed what you heard today, please rate and review the podcast and be sure to subscribe so you never miss an episode.

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