One in 3 workers are carrying grief about the changes happening at work — and our data suggests this runs deeper than just sadness: layers of feeling invisible, abandoned, and distrusted by the people making decisions. In this fourth episode of Season 7 — The Change Fatigue Remedy Series — Dr Michelle McQuaid sits down with Dr Margaret Wheatley, renowned teacher, advisor, and author of Restoring Sanity, to explore why leaders often transmit the very fear they're trying to protect their teams from — and what it takes to build an island of sanity where people can find refuge from the chaos, trust each other, and do meaningful work together. Drawing on five decades of working with leaders, Meg shows what it takes to build an island of sanity, why acknowledging grief — not fixing it — is what moves people forward, and how leaders create the conditions for creativity, generosity and kindness to be the norm.

01:37 Meg explains why leadership is harder now than it has ever been — and what fear is doing to people's capacity to create, care and contribute.

04:41 Meg shares why planning for a steady state is no longer possible — and why uncertainty, not pace, is now every leader's defining challenge.

07:05 Meg introduces Islands of Sanity — why leaders need to create a boundried space within their teams where people can find refuge from the chaos, trust each other, and do meaningful work together.

11:40 Meg outlines what makes an island of sanity work: being together, honouring each other, and trusting you won't abandon each other when things get hard.

19:32 Meg reframes where meaning comes from when the old markers no longer hold — and why contributing to others is where most people find their footing again.

27:20 Michelle shares the Change Lab finding that 1 in 3 workers are carrying grief — and Meg unpacks what lies beneath it: feeling abandoned, distrusted and invisible to the people making decisions.

29:21 Meg reframes grief not as a problem to solve but as something to move through together — and why feeling it fully is what allows people to move forward.

33:56 Meg shares a practice for transforming the grief or loneliness you're carrying alone into a sense of shared human experience — and why it's the most powerful tool she teaches.

SEE HOW YOU'RE NAVIGATING CHANGE

Want to go deeper? Explore evidence-based tools for navigating change — including our self-paced certificate in leading the heart of change — at thechangelabs.com.

For more of Meg's wonderful work and books visit: https://margaretwheatley.com/ 

What if what's defeating us isn't the speed of change but the complexity — multiple crises amplifying each other in ways that no forecasting tool was ever built to handle? In this third episode of Season 7 — The Change Fatigue Remedy Series — Dr Michelle McQuaid sits down with Dr Margaret Heffernan, professor of practice at the University of Bath and author of Embracing Uncertainty, to explore why the focus on efficiency leaves organizations more fragile when complexity hits — and why we need to prioritize optionality instead. Drawing on her work with organizations navigating the polycrisis, Margaret introduces the shift from just-in-time to just-in-case thinking, the early warning system every workplace needs, and what it looks like to trust ourselves and each other in the midst of unpredictability. 

01:36 Margaret explains why we struggle with uncertainty — and why the promise that data and models can deliver certainty is oversold. 

05:00 Margaret outlines what the world's best forecasters say about how far ahead anyone can reliably predict changes — and what that means for our strategy plans. 

08:04 Margaret makes the case for optionality over efficiency: when a surprise comes along, running too lean leaves you more fragile. 

12:41 Margaret explains the polycrisis — multiple crises amplifying each other — and why supply chains built for maximum efficiency have become a liability when complexity hit. 

19:29 Margaret introduces the shift from just-in-time to just-in-case thinking — and the shares examples of how this builds resilience in workplaces. 

26:22 Margaret describes what a language of uncertainty sounds like for leaders: not an admission of defeat, but naming what's complex and opening the conversation to options. 

28:03 Margaret outlines the practice of naming your assumptions after a decision — and agreeing in advance on the signals that would tell you the plan isn't playing out as intended. 

32:09 Michelle shares what the Change Lab research found at the organisational level: making help-seeking the norm and breaking change into tiny steps so teams can sense, learn, and adapt. 

Take our free five-minute change survey to see how you're navigating change right now at thechangelabs.com. 

Want to go deeper? Explore evidence-based tools for navigating change — including our self-paced certificate in leading the heart of change — at thechangelabs.com. 

Ever notice how some changes leave people feeling energized and capable while others leave them exhausted and overwhelmed? What creates this difference? Why do some uncertainties feel like exciting challenges while others trigger that familiar "Oh FUD!" spiral of fear, uncertainty and doubt? This episode explores how to fuel people's confidence, make the most of their capabilities, and help them stay curious about how they can navigate change more effectively together. We share the A in our HEART framework with evidence-based approaches to help you build on people's strengths while also dealing with their challenges and struggles.

01.09 Michelle explains how our brains are wired to help us thrive through change - even when its challenging.

06:36 Michelle shares the 80/20 rule of change that helps to energize rather than exhaust people.

10:33 Michelle offers two organizational tools that can help workplaces embed a strengths-based approach change.

13:39 Mchelle outlines how leaders can map and support the strengths of their teams to navigate change together.

18.54 Michelle shares her favorite ways to develop her strengths during changes - even when her bosses haven't been supportive in the past.

26.19 Michelle explains why many leaders struggle to appreciate strengths even when it consistently improves the return on investment of their change efforts.

29.14 Michelle shares how a small health service have appreciated strengths at an organizational, team, and individual level across their workplace.

35.01 Michelle confesses to overplaying her appreciation of strengths at times and how she adjusts this now when needed.

37.55 Michelle offers a post-it note a-ha to help appreciate strengths through change.

Have you ever been in a meeting where someone shares a "big announcement" and you can practically hear everyone's minds turning off? Compare that to times when you're figuring out a problem together with people you trust - same amount of work, totally different feeling. What makes some complex changes feel safe enough to lean into while others feel dead on arrival? This episode explores how to turn grudging compliance into willing commitment during change. We share the E in our HEART framework with practical tools for meaningful conversations that support self-organization.

01.09 Michelle shares how we can engage people more purposefully around change - even when the change is not something they want.

05.00 Michelle explains why compliance rarely lasts more than three months, and how we can win people's ongoing commitment to change

08:50 Michelle outlines the three basic human needs we all share when it comes to engaging purposefully in change.

13:30 Michelle provides two organizational tools to help workplaces be values-led around their changes.

17.53 Michelle shares how leaders can ask extraordinary questions and practice extraordinary listening to support their teams through change.

23.47 Michelle explains how each of us can use five simple change-crafting questions to make any change more personally meaningful.

29.54 Michelle shares an example of how two organizations that were merging engaged people purposefully to co-create a new set of values.

36.39 Michelle dives into why leaders often struggle to engage their people purposefully around change.

40.51 Michelle offers two post-it notes takeaways for this HEART of Change factor.

Why do some people thrive during change while others get completely overwhelmed? It comes down to whether their nervous system feels "safe enough" to stay curious and collaborative. This episode explores how your emotions impact your brain's internal navigation system and energy for change. We share the H in our HEART framework with concrete tools for reading these signals at individual, team, and organizational levels, transforming emotional chaos into psychological safety.

3:00 Chelle explains why Honoring Feelings is the best neurological place to start when navigating change.

8.13 Chelle shares what has surprised her when working with team and leaders about honoring feelings during times of uncertainty.

11.42 Chelle provides practical examples of how we can honor feellings at the 'Me' (indidvidual) level during change.

15.37 Chelle offers evidence-based tools to help leaders and teams honor feelings at the 'We' level when navigating change together.

21.25 Chelle suggests ways organizations can make it easier to honor feelings at the 'Us' level to make it safer for people to be honest about change approaches.

24.10 Chelle shares a case study of how a large public service organization has been practically using these tools to navigate change.

30.53 Chelle provides a caution for where most workplaces struggle when it comes to honoring feelings during change.

34.37 Chelle offers a post-it note takeaway for honoring feelings.

Ever wonder why change feels so much harder than it did in the past? We're in an unprecedented supercycle where disruptions collide and create ongoing "Oh FUD!" responses - Fear, Uncertainty, and Doubt that are flooding our nervous systems. Based on our work with organizations around the world, we share why traditional approaches miss what matters most and introduce our HEART framework for supporting teams through the emotional reality of transformation, even when uncertainty is the only constant.

1:49 Michelle discusses the concept of a "poly crisis" and why we are in a supercycle of change for the foreseeable future.

5:43 Michelle explains the "Oh FUD!" feeling many of us are having about change.

16:28 Michelle explores why assessing the dimensions of safety and predictability for change can improve our confidence.

20:02 Michelle introduces the HEART of Change Framework to help us navigate people's emotional and social experiences of change.

37:18 Michelle explains "H" - Honoring Feelings.

39:50 Michelle shares "E" - Engaging Purposefully

45:30 Michele introduces the "A" - Appreciate Strengths

47:02 Michelle outlines "R" - Reach Out

50:01 Michelle explains "T" - Take Tiny Steps

Addressing psychosocial safety requirements often creates additional change and potential stress in organizations. This episode explores how to implement safety initiatives without creating the very risks you're trying to prevent. We share practical approaches that reduce overwhelm, build genuine psychological safety, and transform defensive reactions into productive conversations. Discover simple language frameworks and team activities that help normalize uncertainty while maintaining momentum, even during complex organizational transitions.

0:00:35 Katie explains how addressing psychosocial safety requirements can unintentionally heighten poor change management.

0:06:58 Chelle unpacks the human side of change management and how most workplaces unintentionally undermine psychological safety in the process.

0:14:06 Katie and Chelle explore how having a common language and shared literacy about the predictability and safety people feel can make change easier to navigate together.

0:21:25 Chelle and Katie share how leaders can turn ordinary discussions about change that often make people feel stressed and defensive, into extraordinary conversations that spark hope and ownership.

0:36:19 Chelle and Katie provide tiny HEART-based nudges to lead the human side of change at the "Me", "We", and "Us" levels.

Do your people need more tangible skills to manage their own emotional and social responses at work? This episode explores evidence-based tools to help people understand their nervous system responses—whether they're in the "red zone" (urgency), "blue zone" (withdrawal), or "green zone" (connection)—and offers simple techniques like oxytocin shots and bridge-building that restore safety even during challenging moments.

0:00:35 Katie and Chelle breakdown the responsibilties of employees and contractors for psychosocial safety.

0:07:25 Chelle explains how we can build psychological safety at the "Me" (individual) level.

0:10:36 Chelle shares the power of understanding why our brains crave safety and how our nervous system responds to these needs.

0:20:40 Katie and Chelle shares the practical teams they've been teaching in workplaces to help people regulate their nervous systems to build more emotional and social safety in teams.

0:26:57 Katie and Chelle explore how our workplace systems continue to impact our nervous systems, even when we have great "Me" level tools.

Studies consistently find that psychological safety reduces workplace hazards. In this episode, we explore concrete ways to strengthen safety at the "We" level (leaders and teams). We break down our Psychosocial Safety Lego Challenge that transforms abstract concepts into tangible team experiences, discover dynamic techniques to improve role clarity, and help team members find meaning during difficult organizational changes.

0:00:38 Katie and Chelle breakdown the responsibilties of leaders for psychosocial safety.

0:03:31 Chelle explains why psychological safety has consistently been found to helpminimize all 14 of the SafeWork Australia psychosocial risks.

0:06:05 Katie shares how she has been use a Lego Psychosocial Challenge to help leaders and teams practically build the diversity, learning, and teaming skills they need to build psychological safety.

0:15:30 Chelle shares the tools she's been using to help leaders and teams minimize the risk of lack of role clarity.

0:21:44 Chelle shares the tools she's been using to help leaders and teams minimize the risk of poor change management together.

Need to meet organizational psychosocial safety requirements without just ticking boxes? Join us as we explore how OH&S, HR, and wellbeing teams can collaborate on creating risk registers that drive real change. We share practical examples from organizations that have turned compliance into opportunity, engaging leaders and teams in meaningful safety conversations. Discover strategies that not only satisfy regulations but genuinely improve workplace wellbeing.

0:00:59 Katie shares the psychosocial safety responsibilities that must now be met by workplaces in Australia.

0:04:00 Chelle and Katie explore who "owns" creating and maintaining the psychosocial safety risk register in most workplaces. 

0:07:02 Chelle shares the example of how the wellbeing champions at a non-profit organization used the PERMAH wellbeing survey tool to measure psychosocial risks and debrief the results with leaders to co-create the risk register.

0:14:12 Chelle shares an example of how the OH&S and HR team at a local council use a survey insights, leadership workshop, a reporting template to co-create their risk register over a few hours.

0:18:22 Chelle shares an example of how OH&S, HR and wellbeing teams came together at a large construction company to help leaders and their team members co-create their risk register together during a practical workshop.

0:23:10 Chelle shares an example of how OH&S, HR, wellbeing, and legal teams came together a national energy company to design a Stop For Safety week for leaders to spend one hour with their teams identifying risks, co-creating controls, and reporting their insights and commitments for the risk register.

Boards and CEOs are still learning how to meet psychosocial safety requirements in a way that is both practical and effective. Uncertainty around roles and responsibilities can lead to fragmented efforts and increased risk. This episode explores how HR, OH&S, and wellbeing teams can align their efforts to create workplaces that are both legally compliant and genuinely supportive of employee wellbeing.

0:00:55 Chelle and Katie share the recent concerns of boards and CEOs when it comes to implementing psychosocial safety requirements in their workplaces.

0:03:08 Chelle and Katie explore who they are finding "owns" psychosocial safety in most workplaces. Is it HR leaders, OH&S teams, or wellbeing champions?

0:08:02 Chelle and Katie unpack the important value wellbeing champions bring when it comes to promoting mental health in workplaces.

0:09:17 Chelle and Katie clarify the essential role of OH&S teams in bringing a risk management lens to preventing psychosocial injuries.

0:12:03 Chelle and Katie explain the valuable role of HR leaders in supporting cultures of psychological safety across workplaces.

At our core, we all have the same basic psychological needs for respect, value, and appreciation. Yet, the diversity in how, when, and where we would like these needs to be met can make the task of ensuring adequate rewards and recognition challenging. But regular informal feedback and formal development reviews can make all the difference. Find out how.

[00:38] Michelle and Paige discuss the research findings about how frequently workers report experiencing inadequate reward and recognition in their workplaces.\

[1.18] Paige and Michelle explore why lack of reward and recognition isn't just about how much money people are paid at work.

[7.32] Paige shares how leader's can recognise their people's work using a simple informal THANK framework.

[22.00] Michelle shares how leader's can use a formal development review conversation to provide appreciation and development opportunities for their team members.

Nearly 1 in 2 American workers are quietly fatiguing, cracking, or burning out right now — but the data reveals that these aren't just different degrees of the same thing. In this episode of Season 7 — The Change Fatigue Remedy Series — Katie Beresford interviews Dr Michelle McQuaid about the findings of the most recent US Change Lab study, and what the data tells us about where people are on the change fatigue continuum, why leaders keep missing the early warning signs, and what individuals, teams, and organizations can actually do about it. 

01:37 Michelle outlines the four groups on the change fatigue continuum — and explains why the grouped percentages are smaller than the true reach of each experience, and what the ungrouped picture actually shows. 

04:33 Michelle explains why the first signs of doubt in fatiguing workers turn inward — toward self-doubt — rather than toward the strategy, the team, or the change itself, and why that makes them so hard for leaders to spot. 

06:51 Michelle shares why fatiguing workers are almost 13 times more likely to later find themselves quietly cracking — and why this is the critical intervention window leaders need to know about. 

08:03 Michelle unpacks the scale of change US workers are currently navigating: 83% experiencing significant change in the past year, with leadership changes, policy shifts, and AI technology among the most common — and rarely arriving one at a time. 

09:27 Michelle describes why high-performance makes the fatiguing-to-cracking window so easy for leaders to miss — and what they should be watching for instead. 

14:27 Michelle reveals why individual behaviors hold up better under pressure than team or organizational support — and the three things people can do for themselves when change gets hard. 

16:38 Michelle explains why teams are the life raft in uncertainty — and the three things leaders can do to keep people from quietly cracking, including the difference between communicating and connecting. 

18:07 Michelle shares why ordinary questions produce ordinary conversations — and what one leader did differently that changed everything about how his team talked about change. 

24:22 Michelle identifies the organizational level as where support most visibly fails — and the three things organizations need to build into change processes before people fatigue, not after. 

27:25 Michelle explains how C-suite leaders can role model help-seeking by taking extraordinary questions into team meetings rather than arriving with all the answers. 

Take our free five-minute change survey to see how you're navigating change right now at thechangelabs.com. 

Want to go deeper? Explore evidence-based tools for navigating change — including our self-paced certificate in leading the heart of change — at thechangelabs.com. 

We all have certain tasks we dread at work. Unfortunately, doing well in our jobs often hinges on our ability to handle these mundane tasks as proficiently as the more interesting ones.  Despite our best efforts to make work more engaging, low job control can make tasks more tedious than they need to be, but five simple job crafting questions give us more freedom? 

[00:39] Michelle and Paige discuss the research findings about how frequently workers report experiencing low job control in their workplaces.
[2:34] Paige and Michelle explore why lack of job control isn't just about having to do the things you don't like at work.
[9:19] Paige shares how leaders and team members can job craft to provide more autonomy at work.

When it comes to completing our work, we all want to do well. Succeeding, however, depends on us having a clear set of expectations and measurable outcomes that deliver value for our team, clients, and organization. Despite clear communication, the complex and dynamic nature of our work can result in a lack of role clarity, but could a dynamic job description template could deliver the flexibility we need?

[00:40] Michelle and Paige discuss the research findings about how frequently workers report experiencing lack of role clarity in their workplaces.
[03:10] Paige shares why role clarity requires more than just a clear job description.
[8:10] Paige explains how role clarity and accountability go hand-in-hand.
[15:28] Michelle shares how a Dynamic Job Description Template can help leaders navigate the dynamic nature of work in their teams.

A never-ending to-do list with no breaks in sight, a lack of the right training and support, and long, irregular, and unpredictable working hours can leave people feeling anxious and overwhelmed. The risk of unachievable job demands can be hard to navigate, but what if a simple job demands journal made it easier to see and prioritize? 

You'll learn:

[00:15] Michelle and Paige discuss the research findings about how frequently workers report experiencing unachievable jobs demands in their workplaces.
[03:00] Michelle shares why the hazard of unachievable job demands is more than just having too much work.
[8:00] Paige shares practical examples of how leaders are effectively minimizing the risk of unachievable job demands.
[11:00] Michelle shares how the Job Demands Journal has helped her and other leaders navigate the dynamic nature of unachievable job demands in their teams.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, visit us at www.theleaderslab.net.

Thanks for listening!

Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people.

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us.

Until next time, take care.

In this bonus episode of Making Leadership Work, Dr. Paige Williams and Dr. Michelle McQuaid share their 'ah-ha' moments from their research with more than 1,000 Australian workers, on their levels of burnout, psychosocial hazards, and psychological safety and how this is impacting safety, wellbeing and performance in their workplaces.

You'll learn:

[00:39] Michelle and Paige discuss the research findings that suggest two-thirds of Australian workers are experiencing burnout.
[07:01] Michelle and Paige discuss how burnout is having an impact on psychosocial hazards.
[11:44] Paige shares what the data suggests is the most effective way to minimize psychosocial hazards.
[20:15] Michelle and Paige explore the impact CARE practices can have on levels of psychological safety within teams.
[28:15] Paige shares what the data found were the top four psychosocial hazards experienced by leaders and team members.
[34:49] Paige provides her top 3 takeaways from the podcast.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, join us on The Leaders Lab LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/theleaderslab/

Thanks for listening!

Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people.

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us.

Until next time, take care.

Dr. Michelle McQuaid and Dr. Paige Williams explore the small, evidence-based practices leaders can use to build psychological safety at the "Me" (individual), "We" (team) and "Us" (workplace) levels. Be sure to grab their done-for-you toolkit on the cheatsheet.

You'll learn: 

[00:39] - Michelle and Paige explore how psychological safety can minimize psychosocial risks.
[02:27] - Paige explains what a Culture of CARE is.
[05:17] - Michelle and Paige discuss how the CARE Culture positively impacts on workers.
[14:51] - Paige explains why CARE practices help to foster psychological safety.
[19:11] - Michelle explores practical ways to embed CARE practices at the "Me" level.
[25:22] - Michelle explores practical ways to embed CARE practices at the "We" level.
[32:26] - Michelle explores practical ways to embed CARE practices at the "Us" level.
[41:09] - Paige provides her most important insights for listeners to take away.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, join us on The Leaders Lab LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/theleaderslab/

Thanks for listening!

Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people.

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us.

Until next time, take care.

Professor Amy Edmondson joins us to share her thoughts on why psychological safety can help us to minimize psychosocial risks in workplaces. She also shares a sneak peek of her new book and provides us with practical tools and real-life examples of how we can build psychological safety through a systems lens at the "me", "we" and "us" levels.

You'll learn:
[02:21] - Amy explores reasons why learning from mistakes is easier said than done.
[09:01] - Amy discusses the impact of psychological safety on psychosocial hazards.
[13:40] - Amy talks about the benefits and risks of having candid conversations.
[21:24] - Amy talks about designing psychologically safe organizational systems.
[34:37] - Amy explores the importance of self-awareness in psychological safety.
[38:31] - Amy recommends ways listeners can build skills around psychological safety and self-awareness.
[42:37] - Michelle provides three key takeaways from our chat with Amy.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, join us on The Leaders Lab LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/theleaderslab/

Thanks for listening!

Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people.

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us.

Until next time, take care.

Dr. Michelle McQuaid and Dr. Paige Williams share the biggest safest gap their research has discovered in workplaces and how you can avoid this risk for your teams.

You'll learn:
[01:09] - Michelle and Paige discuss why identifying risks is just one part of the solution.
[08:50] - Michelle and Paige explore what is missing when you only measure psychosocial risks.
[23:18] - Michelle and Paige discuss the safety gap.
[27:36] - Paige discusses the systems approach to wellbeing, at the 'Me, We and Us' level.
[33:43] - Michelle and Paige explore the importance of psychological safety and ways to foster it in organizations.                                                                                                                  
[44:53] - Paige recaps her most important leadership insights.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, join us on The Leaders Lab LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/theleaderslab/

Thanks for listening!
Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people.

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us.

Until next time, take care.

Are you able to confidently spot the psychosocial hazards your team may be facing? Caitlin Ible, an employment law expert from MinterEllison, joins us to provide the practical tips every leader needs to quickly and easily identify and minimize their team's psychosocial risks. 

You'll learn:
[02:47] - Caitlin explores the differences between psychosocial hazards and risks.
[04:43] - Caitlin discusses the Work Design hazards.
[09:56] - Caitlin explains Social Support hazards.
[17:05] - Caitlin discusses Work Conditions hazards.
[20:32] - Caitlin discusses Work Experience hazards.
[25:55] - Caitlin discusses the workplace responsibilities towards employees and contractors.
[32:27] - Caitlin discusses the necessary risk assessments.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, join us on The Leaders Lab LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/theleaderslab/ 

Thanks for listening!
Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people. 

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us. 

Until next time, take care. 

Dr. Michelle McQuaid and Dr. Paige Williams help you unpack the new psychosocial safety leadership requirements and share the small, practical, evidence-based tools that can not only make the way we work safer but also supercharge the wellbeing and performance of leaders and teams.

You'll learn:
[01:42] - Michelle and Paige discuss the difference between psychosocial safety and psychological safety.
[04:12] - Michelle and Paige discuss what has led to workplaces needing psychosocial hazard legislation.
[11:25] - Michelle and Paige discuss the costs of mental health in workplaces and society.
[15:13] - Michelle and Paige discuss the importance of taking a proactive approach to supporting wellbeing in the workplace.
[18:27] - Paige and Michelle explore how safety has become a business requirement, and care has become a business imperative.
[26:57] - Michelle and Paige discuss the business case for fostering psychological safety in the workplace.
[34:18] - Michelle and Paige discuss how the frequency of either psychosocial hazards (experienced too often) or wellbeing initiatives (experienced not often enough) can impact workers' wellbeing.
[41:10] - Michelle and Paige share some of their leadership insights.

To stay a part of the conversation and up to date with the latest research and evidence-based ways to supercharge safety for your people, join us on The Leaders Lab LinkedIn Page https://www.linkedin.com/showcase/theleaderslab/ 

Thanks for listening!
Please leave an honest review for Making Leadership Work on Apple Podcasts to help us continue to improve, and reach more people. 

We do read each and every review and we are grateful to anyone who takes the time to share their thoughts with us. 

Until next time, take care. 

In this episode, Dr. Paige Williams chats with Prof. Dan Cable, who shares with us how building a personal highlight reel can be effective in understanding our strengths. Dan also shares with us the results of his research on the impact this has for individuals and teams.

To grab your cheatsheet from this podcast just visit www.theleaderslab.net/podcast

When change keeps coming, research suggests the way we talk to ourselves is making it harder. In this first episode of Season 7 — The Change Fatigue Remedy Series — Michelle explores with Dr Kristin Neff what it practically looks like to be a wiser, kinder friend to yourself when things get hard: why "I should be handling this better" is your threat system talking, not the truth, and what to do instead. With more than two decades of research behind her, Dr Neff explains why the three elements of self-compassion — mindfulness, self-kindness, and common humanity — shape not just how you cope, but how your team talks about mistakes, how psychological safety takes root, and what becomes possible when a whole workplace builds the practice together.

01:38 Kristin explains when the ground keeps shifting, how might being a wiser, kinder friend to yourself actually help — and why does it matter for the people around you?

04:37 Kristin outlines how the three elements of self-compassion — mindfulness, self-kindness, and common humanity can practically help us navigate change.

09:09 Kristin shares why bumping up against your limits and making mistakes isn't failure — it's precisely how we learn and grow.

11:26 Kristin provides a simple brain hack to help us break free from our tendency to criticize, ruminate, and isolate ourselves when we're under pressure.

16:44 Kristin explains how soothing the body helps us our nervous system to navigate change when words alone aren't cutting through.

22:03 Kristin shares how self-compassion spreads through teams and shares how a hospital has used this to build a culture of care that is reducing fatigue.

28:46 Kristin shares how workplaces can design changes to support more self-compassion.

30:39 Kristin outlines how self-compassion can be fierce and help us to set boundaries, say no, and motivate change when needed.

Take our free five-minute change survey to see how you're navigating change right now at thechangelabs.com.

Want to go deeper? Explore evidence-based tools for navigating change — including our self-paced certificate in leading the heart of change — at thechangelabs.com.

In this episode, Dr. Paige Williams chats with Dr. Adam Fraser, who shares insights around being more value-driven, by reframing your relationship between thriving and struggle. Adam shares how struggle can actually be a benefit to our learning and growth and guides us through four practical steps we can take to get more comfortable with struggle.

To grab your cheatsheet from this podcast just visit www.theleaderslab.net/podcast

In this episode, Dr. Michelle McQuaid explores with Peter Senge how to embrace the uncertainty and complexity of navigating change and unlocking learning in our workplaces. Peter shares insights on how to be more inclusive and effective allies by not needing to be the 'expert' and instead of inviting different perspectives, experiences, and ideas into conversations.

To grab your cheatsheet from this podcast just visit www.theleaderslab.net/podcast

In this podcast Dr. Michelle McQuaid talks with Dr. Margaret Heffernan, who shares her insights that even the best forecasters can't accurately plan for more than 150 days – about six months. Margaret explores the difference between complicated and complex systems, and how we can help people to care for their wellbeing as they navigate unpredictable and challenging work environments.

To grab your cheatsheet from this podcast just visit www.theleaderslab.net/podcast

In this episode, co-founder of The Leaders Lab, Dr. Michelle McQuaid, talks with Dr. Peggy Holman, an author, and consultant who employs dialogical practices to turn passivity into participation. Peggy shares the importance of taking a more human-centered approach with your team, by understanding that people don't work like machines. She helps us understand that organizations are living systems and that people within them need meaningful work and connections in order to consistently do their best work.

To grab your cheatsheet from this podcast just visit www.theleaderslab.net/podcast

In this episode, Dr. Paige Williams chats with Dr. Meg Wheatley and explores how we can take a more tailored leadership approach, by letting go of traditional models and ways of leading that no longer serve us, and create a more authentic and effective pathway. Meg helps us understand how leaders can adjust their approaches to have a more positive impact on their people and their workplaces.

To grab your cheatsheet from this podcast just visit www.theleaderslab.net/podcast

Understand what makes it safe enough to admit mistakes, ask for help, and learn alongside each other — even when you're struggling. In this final episode of our special bonus season, hosts Dr Michelle McQuaid and Evie Wright share the powerful mantra "stay with me" — the opposite of abandoning ourselves when things get hard. With insights from self-compassion researcher Dr Kristin Neff and Internal Family Systems psychologist Dr Tori Olds, discover why your inner critic thinks it's helping (even when it's not), and learn to meet your protective parts with curiosity instead of shame. Explore how to navigate what's ahead without pretending you have all the answers — and help others do the same. 

00:03 Michelle and Evie recap the first two episodes: learning to see which zone your nervous system is in, and how to soothe your body to get back on the wobble board. 

05:57 Evie shares her "back and forth to the grass" email story — why soothing the body sometimes isn't enough when we keep re-triggering ourselves. 

07:12 The safari guide insight: why "don't run" makes people panic, but "stay with me" helps the brain feel safe enough to figure things out. 

11:16 Why we attack ourselves when threatened — Dr Kristin Neff explains how we turn our stress responses inward with self-criticism, shame, and rumination. 

13:30 The three steps of self-compassion: acknowledging this is hard, remembering we're not alone, and asking what a wise and kind friend would say. 

16:15 Does self-compassion make us soft? Kristin's research shows the opposite — warmth and support make us stronger and more able to take accountability. 

18:17 Going deeper: Michelle introduces Internal Family Systems (IFS) and psychologist Dr Tori Olds, who explains that our capacity for self-compassion is what our brains are wired to do at their best. 

20:02 The 8 C's of self energy: calm, clarity, curiosity, creativity, compassion, connectedness, confidence and courage — what's available when our connection circuit is on. 

24:19 Why our protective parts aren't enemies — they're like exhausted toddlers doing the best they can with strategies they learned when we were young. 

29:14 What happens when "an adult comes into the room" — how parts can finally relax when they trust that self energy is present and not trying to fix or get rid of them. 

30:00 The "moving towards" tool: three steps to notice the part, get to know what it's protecting you from, and ask what it needs to trust you can handle things now. 

36:44 When you still can't get back on the wobble board — a preview of the Drama Triangle tool available in the Nervous System Advantage mini-masterclass. 

Want to go deeper? Grab your free tiny nudge tools to settle your brain at michellemcquaid.com and check out our Nervous System Advantage mini-masterclass at www.michellemcquaid.com.

Our bodies have to calm down before our thoughts can follow — and this is the step most of us skip. In this second episode of our special bonus season, hosts Dr Michelle McQuaid and Evie Wright share practical body-based tools you can use anywhere, anytime: in meetings, during difficult conversations, or mid-presentation (without anyone noticing). With guest insights from somatic expert Nahid de Belgeonne, author of Soothed, learn how to think of your nervous system as an inner toddler that needs our compassion and care — not criticism.  

00:03 Michelle and Evie welcome listeners back and recap last episode's core insight: our brain is constantly asking "am I safe enough?" — and our nervous system responds accordingly. 

05:36 Why trying to "think your way calm" doesn't work — when we're in our protection circuit, we have less blood and oxygen in the thinking part of our brain, so we need to soothe our body first. 

09:53 Nahid de Belgeonne introduces the powerful reframe: think of your nervous system as an inner toddler that needs to be soothed, not told to "get a grip." 

11:47 Tool one: breath awareness — Nahid explains how breathe can act like "a remote control to the brain" and Evie guides listeners through a simple breath practice. 

18:57 Tool two: oscillation — Michelle shares Nahid's jiggling techniques, from subtle toe and finger movements you can do in meetings to full arm oscillations that release shoulder tension. 

24:48 Tool three: shaking it out — Evie leads a full-body shake, explaining how it releases the stuck energy our body holds when we're primed for action but don't actually need to fight or flee. 

29:48 Nahid on why "ambition has no place in this practice" — learning by getting things wrong, staying curious rather than performative, and giving your nervous system new possibilities. 

32:42 Building proactive practice — why practising these tools when you're already in the green zone helps them feel more natural when you tip off the wobble board. 

Want to go deeper? Grab your free somatic nudge playsheets and videos and check out our Nervous System Advantage mini-masterclass at www.michellemcquaid.com.

Discover why the pace of change has left so many of us quietly cracking — and why this isn't a personal energy or resilience failing. In this first episode of our special bonus season, hosts Dr Michelle McQuaid and Evie Wright explore how to decode the signals your nervous system sends: why you say "I'm fine" when you're anything but, or "I'll take care of it" when you're already exhausted. With guest insights from therapist and author Sue Marriott, learn about the connection and protection circuits that shape your responses to stress, and discover why understanding your green, blue, and red zones is the first step to navigating the super cycle of change we're all living through.

00:03 Michelle and Evie introduce this special bonus season on why so many of us have been feeling like our nervous systems are fraying.

01:03 The research behind "quiet cracking" — why 1 in 2 workers feel like they're holding it together on the outside while falling apart inside.

03:23 Why many of our resilience tools and self-care practices aren't working like they used to — and what the "super cycle of change" is doing to all of us.

08:44 How your brain decides if you're safe enough or not safe enough and how this impacts your nervous system.

13:36 What happens when you feel safe enough — your nervous system keeps your thinking brain online, so you stay flexible even when things get hard.

16:07 Unpacking the "I'm fine" pattern — when your nervous system shifts into protection mode by shutting down, withdrawing, and disconnecting from your feelings.

21:12 Exploring the "I'll fix it" pattern — when your nervous system shifts into protection mode by heating up, creating urgency, and driving you to over-function.

32:05 Simple ways to notice what's happening in your body throughout the day — and preview the hands-on calming tools coming in the next episode.

Want to go deeper? Grab your free somatic nudge playsheets and videos and check out our Nervous System Advantage mini-masterclass at www.michellemcquaid.com.

While new data suggests 58% of changes fail, organizations using human-centered methods achieve 93% success rates. What's the difference? This final episode reveals how the HEART framework helps teams thrive through today's supercycle of change by helping people feel 'safe enough' to embrace not having all the answers, self-organize around actions they care enough to own, and measure success by growing their capabilities to navigate uncertainty together. We bring together all five HEART factors into one simple practice you can do anywhere, anytime.

02:00 Michelle shares how she talks with leaders about the supercycle of change they are currently experiencing and the emotional and social impact it is having on their people.

06:35 Michelle explains how she helps leaders understand how to prioritize a more human-centered approach to change.

13.25 Michelle outlines why and how she gets leaders to embrace "I don't know" when it comes to navigating complex changes.

16:25 Michelle shares why and how she helps leaders to understand the power of self-organization when it comes to navigating change.

20:27 Michelle explains why and how she encourages leaders to accept that their most important goal is growing their people's capabilities to navigate complex change together, rather than making change stick.

27:15 Michelle shares how she helps leaders use the five HEART factors to practically support a human-centered approach to change.

32.19 Michelle summarizes how we can break down human-centered change in a way leaders can understand and action.

33.54 Michelle walks through the HEART Check tool to help you choose how you will navigate change.

43:52 Michelle shares her final post-it note takeaway for leading human-centered change.

Change initiatives often start with such confidence - neat timelines, clear milestones, everyone aligned - yet within weeks things feel messy and unpredictable. What makes the reality so different from the plan? This episode explores why "tiny is mighty" when it comes to navigating complex change. We share the T in our HEART framework with practical tools for embracing polarities rather than false choices, starting where you are, sensing when to adapt, and celebrating small wins that build the resilience needed to thrive in ongoing uncertainty.

01:04 Chelle explains the benefits of Taking Tiny Steps when it comes to navigating change.

09:30 Chelle shares the four elements that make it easier to take tiny steps together from polarities to celebrations.

16:44 Chelle offers a metaphor from Peter Senge to understand why we need to sense, learn, and adapt when it comes to navigating complex change.

20:52 Chelle provides two personal tools to embrace "both/and" thinking as we navigate the polarities of change.

25:58 Chelle shares two team tools to leverage The Progress Principle practices to celebrate small wins together.

32:49 Chelle offers two organizational tools to embed adaptative learning across organizational cultures.

39:24 Chelle shares an example of how her team apply these tools for The Michelle McQuaid Group.

48:13 Chelle explains where workplaces tend to struggle when it comes to taking tiny steps.

50:50 Chelle shares the post-it note a-ha for taking tiny steps.

Why do some teams emerge from uncertainty stronger and more connected, while others splinter into silos where everyone's fending for themselves? The difference lies in whether people feel safe enough to admit they're struggling and ask for help. This episode reveals why reaching out is often the one simple act standing between you and success during change. We share the R in our HEART framework with practical tools for normalizing struggle, making it easier to ask for and offer help, and ensuring no one burns out from caring.

01:12 Chelle explains why Reaching Out helps us to navigate the uncertainty, fear, and doubt that comes with change.

09:15 Chelle shares the three elements make it easier to ask for help when we're feeling vulnerable and overwhelmed

11:46 Chelle provides two individual tools we can reach for help to ensure we are asking cleanly and clearly for help rather than manipulating others

17:38 Chelle offers two organizational tools we can use to create a help-seeking culture.

23:49 Chelle shares two team team tools we can use to set healthy boundaries around our help giving so we don't burn each other out.

29:03 Chelle explains how IDEO have built helping into the norms, processes, and practices and the impact it has had in their workplace.

36:18 Chelle exploers how workplaces can ensure people are available to help each other.

38:33 Chelle provides the post-it note a-ha takeaway for Reaching Out.