In this powerful and deeply personal episode of "A Load of BS on Sport," we sit down with the legendary Nigel Owens. From his humble beginnings in a small Welsh village, where English was a second language, to becoming one of rugby's most respected referees, Nigel's journey is one of resilience and raw honesty. He opens up about the challenges of officiating high-stakes matches, his candid views on the TMO's impact on the game, and the importance of earned respect on the field.

Beyond the rugby pitch, Nigel shares his deeply personal struggles with his sexuality, the isolating experience of growing up in a time of prejudice, and his battle with bulimia and depression. In a moment of profound vulnerability, he recounts his near-fatal attempt to take his own life, a stark reminder of the internal conflicts he faced.

Nigel's story is a testament to the power of self-acceptance and the importance of being true to oneself. He offers invaluable advice to young people facing similar challenges, emphasising the importance of happiness and self-pride. This episode is a must-listen for anyone seeking inspiration, honesty, and a deeper understanding of the man behind the whistle. Join us as we explore the rural roots, rugby rulings, and raw honesty of Nigel Owens.

If you found Nigel's story as moving and insightful as we did, please subscribe to "A Load of BS on Sport" on your favorite podcast platform. Your subscription helps us bring you more compelling conversations like this one. Don't forget to share this episode with your friends and family – Nigel's message of resilience and self-acceptance is one that everyone needs to hear. Thank you for listening!

We understand that Nigel's candid discussion of mental health challenges, including depression and suicidal thoughts, may resonate with some of our listeners. If you or someone you know is struggling, please remember that you're not alone and help is available. We encourage you to reach out to the following organisations for support:

UK & Ireland Support Resources:

• Samaritans (UK & Ireland):Provides confidential emotional support for people experiencing feelings of distress or despair.
• Phone: 116 123 (free, 24/7)
• Website: www.samaritans.org
• Mind (UK):Offers information and support for anyone experiencing a mental health problem.
• Phone: 0300 123 3393 (Monday to Friday, 9 am to 6 pm)
• Website: www.mind.org.uk
• CALM (Campaign Against Living Miserably) (UK):Specifically targets men who are struggling with their mental health.
• Phone: 0800 58 58 58 (daily, 5 pm to midnight)
• Website: www.thecalmzone.net
• Pieta (Ireland):Provides free therapy to those engaging in self-harm, those with suicidal ideation, or those bereaved by suicide.
• Phone: 01 628 2111
• Website: www.pieta.ie
• Aware (Ireland):provides support and information for people who experience depression and bipolar disorder.
• Website: www.aware.ie
• LGBT Foundation (UK):Provides support and information for the LGBTQ+ community.
• Phone: 0345 3 30 30 30
• Website: lgbt.foundation

Remember, seeking help is a sign of strength, and there are people who care and want to support you. Please reach out if you need it.

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Two-time Olympic gold medalist Alistair Brownlee joins hosts Daniel Ross and Dan Biggar to discuss the physical and mental demands of elite endurance sport, his recent retirement, and the transition to life beyond competition. The triathlon legend offers rare insights into the mindset that propelled him to the pinnacle of one of the world's most grueling sports.

🔥 KEY THEMES:

THE PSYCHOLOGY OF PAIN

Brownlee reveals his approach to endurance sport's greatest challenge: "I remember practicing from a young age... looking at some point on the bike in front of me and just thinking, in this moment, nothing matters apart from the fact that I don't get any further away from that point." His ability to maintain complete focus while pushing his body to its limits defined his career.

THE RETIREMENT TRANSITION

"This marks my transition from professional triathlon—a moment approached with both dread and excitement in equal measure," Brownlee reflects on ending his 18-year professional career. Unlike many athletes who struggle with identity after sport, he embraces this new chapter: "There's definitely a lot less dread and there's still plenty of excitement."

BUILDING CONSISTENCY & HABITS

Brownlee shares his revolutionary approach to training consistency: "You don't give yourself the option not to." Rather than relying on willpower, he created systems and habits that removed decision-making from the equation: "I wake up Monday morning, the alarm goes off. I don't have an option whether I'm going training or not. It's just what I do."

THE ROLE OF ENVIRONMENT & COMMUNITY

"I think a happy circumstance of some traits, my environment around me and quite a lot of luck," Brownlee attributes his success to multiple factors beyond talent. From supportive parents to finding the right coach at the right time, he emphasizes how our surroundings shape our potential.

BALANCING SPORT & LIFE

Brownlee discusses the importance of maintaining perspective through education and interests outside sport: "I always kind of recommend to athletes if they have got the chance, just do bits alongside it just to keep that kind of perspective and context and skills in the outside world."

Listen as this sporting great shares the lessons learned from pushing his body to the absolute limit, the value of imagination over belief, and why finding contentment remains life's greatest challenge. Whether you're an aspiring athlete or simply fascinated by the psychology of high performance, this conversation offers invaluable insights into what separates the good from the truly great.

🎧 Subscribe to our podcast for more in-depth conversations with sporting legends!

#AlistairBrownlee #Triathlon #OlympicChampion #EnduranceSport #MentalToughness #SportPsychology #ElitePerformance #RetirementTransition #ConsistencyHabits #PainTolerance #HighPerformance #AthleteMindset #OlympicGold #EnduranceTraining

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Welcome to a special Christmas edition of A Load of BS on Sport with the two Dans. In this festive bonus episode, we reflect on the highlights of Series 1, share  personal holiday stories, and look ahead to an exciting lineup for Season 2. Plus, don't miss our brand-new quiz feature, "Bigger Isn’t Always Better," where Dan answers questions about his career and more. Grab a mince pie, settle in, and join us for a bit of holiday cheer and chatter!

Show Notes:

• Dan and Dan's festive preparations 
• Reflections on the incredible Series 1 guests, including Johnny Wilkinson, Sir Andrew Strauss, Geraint Thomas, Charlie Methven and Andrew Steele and more
• Sneak peek of guests lined up for Series Two, including Siya Kolisi, Richard Arnold, and possibly Gary Neville...
• Feature: "Bigger Isn’t Always Better" Quiz

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Today we’re joined by Chris Boyd, highly respected rugby coach with extensive experience in both New Zealand and the UK. Known for his tactical expertise and leadership, Chris shares insights into his coaching journey, including his time with the Kiwi U20s, the Hurricanes and Northampton Saints; as well as the mental side of high-performance sport. As a close mentor to Dan Biggar, their relationship adds an extra layer of depth to the conversation, offering a unique perspective on coaching, leadership, and team dynamics.

Show notes:
Continuous Improvement for Elite Players
"The very best players are gifted in one part of their game... but there's always something to work on."

• Boyd emphasises the importance of consistent self-improvement, regardless of a player's talent

Creating a Culture of Empowerment
"People that feel empowered, belong, connected are always going to want to try harder and perform better."

• Boyd fostered a culture at Saints where players felt supported and empowered, leading to better team cohesion and performance

Philosophy on Risk and Reward
Boyd’s allowed players to take risks: "The Kiwi attitude probably is a little bit more..., if we can hold on to the ball... we’re back in the game."

• He contrasts the risk-averse mindset of Northern Hemisphere teams with the more fluid, risk-taking style from New Zealand rugby

Building a Resilient Team
"You can’t grow culture, culture grows itself."

• Boyd reflects on how setbacks, such as tough defeats, can be used to build resilience and foster a team’s growth

Empathy and Connection in Leadership
"Coaching rugby is a pleasure and a privilege... life experiences teach you to be calm."

• Boyd discusses the importance of emotional intelligence, both in coaching and managing people

Developing Players Beyond Rugby
"You get used to living on big wages... but when the game stops, you can fall off the cliff."

• He warns about the challenges players face post-retirement and importance of planning for life beyond sport

The Importance of 'Why’
Boyd introduced a "Why Board" at Saints, where players would place personal photos to remind themselves of their purpose: "The last thing you saw before going out onto the pitch was why you were doing it."

• This initiative reinforced the idea that personal motivation connects with team success

Coaching Style: Balancing the Carrot and Stick
Boyd contrasts his coaching style with that of other famous coaches: "Eddie Jones wanted to keep you on your toes... with me, it was black and white."

• He believes in being clear and consistent with players, empowering them to express themselves without fear of failure

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In this episode of A Load of BS on Sport, we sit down with one of England's most charismatic cricketers, Graeme Swann. A key figure in  3 England Ashes victories, Graeme opens up about his unconventional approach to spin bowling, the team dynamics that fuelled success, and his transition from the cricket field to coaching. With his trademark humour, we reflect on the highs, lows, and everything in between, offering unique insights into the mental game that defined his career.

Show Notes:
The Psychology of Spin Bowling: Graeme details his mental approach to the game, likening it to a battle of wits with batsmen. He explains his strategy of bowling aggressively and using field placements to create opportunities for catches.

"When you're bowling spin, there’s no magic, no gamesmanship, just pure outthinking the batsman and creating an environment that makes them second guess themselves."

The Theatre of Spin Bowling: Graeme describes his belief in taking wickets from the first ball and how the theatre of the game added to his success.

The Intensity of Team Dynamics: We discuss his relationship with teammates like Kevin Pietersen, the importance of team dynamics, including the role of conflict in driving success. He shares insights into the famous Ashes campaign of 201/11 and the energy of the changing room.

Career Highlights and Transition: We reflect on his peak Ashes performances and the unexpected and abrupt end to his career due to a debilitating injury. He shares how he struggled with the transition from active cricket to coaching, revealing how returning to coaching reignited his passion.

"I didn’t have time to think about retiring. One day I couldn’t feel my hand, and by the next, I was finished. It was a brutal end to a career I loved."

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Dan Biggar and Dan Ross step out of their comfort zone to dive into the world of boxing with none other than Carl Frampton—Northern Ireland’s first two-division world champion, renowned not just for his incredible achievements in the ring, but also for his resilience, humility, and ability to unite people across divides.

In this episode, Carl opens up about the mental and physical challenges of being in one of the most gruelling sports, the hard lessons he’s learned, and what really drives him—whether it’s legacy, family, or simply the love of the fight. From his most gruelling battles to the life lessons he carries with him today, Carl shares a truly fascinating story.

Show Notes:

Early Beginnings & Boxing Passion: Carl reveals how he started boxing at age seven. Despite finding the repetitive training tedious, it was the sparring and the thrill of the fight that ignited his passion for boxing

Hard Work vs. Talent: Carl reflects on his career by stating, "I wasn’t naturally talented, but I worked hard." Carl pushed through the pain and overcame early doubts, earning his place as one of the best in his weight class

Resilience & Mental Toughness: Carl gives an inside look at what goes through his mind before a fight. He talks about the nerves that hit on fight day, especially the pressure of making weight

Tough Fights & Lessons Learned: A defining moment in Carl's career was his European title fight against Kiko Martinez. He recounts the brutal nine rounds where both his hands were broken, and he was hurt to the body and head, but fought through to win. "That was a moment where I knew I could hang with the best," Carl says

The Pressure of Being a Champion: After becoming a world champion, Carl felt the pressure to constantly perform at his best. He recalls the heightened expectations after his first world title win in 2014, where every fight seemed to carry more weight. He admits, "It’s nice when people buy you drinks and congratulate you, but there’s pressure too."

The Breakdown with Barry McGuigan: Carl openly discusses his fallout with his former manager and mentor. The experience taught Carl not to trust people blindly and to be more cautious in his professional relationships

Life After Boxing: Now a commentator for TNT Sports, Carl is still deeply involved in the boxing world but enjoys a more relaxed lifestyle. He talks about how, after years of gruelling training camps, it's refreshing to stay involved in the sport without the physical toll

Legacy and Lessons: Carl expresses pride in being the first Northern Irishman to win world titles in two different weight divisions. "I want to be remembered for exciting, tough fights," Carl says, acknowledging his battles with Kiko Martinez, Josh Warrington and Leo Santa Cruz

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• Ben discusses his journey from rugby coach to Performance Director at Brentford FC
• Reflections on leading Fiji to Olympic gold and the lessons learned in team culture
• Ben shares how discipline and structure helped transform the Fijian team’s performance
• The importance of balancing freedom with high standards in elite sport
• Insights into the challenges of transitioning from rugby to football leadership
• Ben talks about the power of alignment and communication in building successful teams
• The role of player care and cultural sensitivity in managing a diverse squad
• Ben critiques the obsession with marginal gains and emphasises the importance of solid foundations

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Join us as we dive into the mind of Sir Andrew Strauss, one of England's greatest cricket captains. From leading his team to Ashes glory twice to navigating the highs and lows of elite sport, Strauss shares powerful insights on leadership, resilience, and life beyond the game. This is a conversation about more than runs and wickets—it's about legacy, culture, and what it truly means to thrive under pressure.

Show Notes:
"Cricket requires players to accept the randomness of fate - a hard pill for perfectionists."

Three key takeaways:

• Resilience and adaptability in elite sport: even the top batsmen in cricket go through periods of poor form and this can take a mental toll on players: "Batsmen must be philosophical. You fail more often than you succeed, and you have to price that in." Developing coping mechanisms and a mindset to manage these ebbs and flows is key
• Importance of team culture: "Athletes thrive when they feel cared for and supported. If they feel cared for, they’ll forgive many of your weaknesses as a leader." A strong culture and the importance of balancing family life with cricket are critical – particularly when some players are away 300 days a year
• Leadership: the role of leadership is to balance the needs of individual with collective goals. "You can’t afford to let everyone do exactly what they want, but successful teams allow for individuality within a shared framework"

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• Debut Magic: Bryan scores on his first touch against England, launching his iconic career
• World Cup Glory: The emotional highs of winning the 2007 Rugby World Cup with South Africa
• Pressure of Being a Superstar: Bryan shares the mental struggle of living up to expectations after early success
• Low Points: From a crushing 49-0 loss in 2006 to being booed in 2010, Bryan opens up about facing adversity
• Leadership Evolution: From wing to team leader, how Bryan embraced responsibility as his career progressed
• Life After Rugby: Navigating the tough transition from sport to business, and finding new purpose
• Positive Mindset: The power of choosing positivity and focusing on growth, both on and off the field

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Ever wondered what it's really like to revive a football club from the brink?

In this episode, we’re joined by Charlie Methven, football executive and co-owner of Charlton Athletic. Charlie shares his journey from the chaos at Sunderland to building stability, offering a rare insight into the cultural challenges, leadership struggles, and what it truly takes to turn a club around.

Show Notes:

• Cultural clashes and the challenge of reviving Sunderland
• Hard truths and relentless ambition needed to stabilize a struggling club
• Now at Charlton, Charlie brings the same determination to a new environment
• Honest insights and hard-earned lessons on the realities of football management
• A raw look at the fight against mediocrity in the world of football

Catch the full story and see what it takes to bring a club back to life.

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In this episode of A Load of BS on Sport, we sit down with Shaun Edwards, the legendary defence coach of the French national rugby team and a former playing great who has shaped the careers of countless athletes, including our very own Dan Biggar.

We dive deep into Shaun’s coaching philosophy, the cultural nuances of rugby and the secrets behind building a winning mentality.

Show notes:
Coaching Style

• Shaun emphasises clarity and simplicity in coaching, advocating concise communication 

Cultural Differences

• Shaun notes the strong work ethic and commitment of French players, challenging stereotypes about their approach to the game

Player Insights

• Dan B shares his perspective on Shaun as a coach, highlighting his commitment to improving players and fostering a strong team culture
• Emphasis on importance of personal connections and understanding players' motivations

Team Dynamics

• The importance of conflict and differing opinions in creating a successful team environment

Legacy and Influence

• Shaun reflects on his impact as a coach and the importance of being approachable and relatable to players
• Dan B acknowledges Shaun’s ability to make defence engaging, fostering a culture of pride in defensive performance

Player Development

• Desire for Improvement: Shaun values players who show a willingness to improve and engage with the coaching process. He appreciates when players have opinions and ask questions, indicating their investment in the game
• Individualised Feedback: He focuses on giving targeted, actionable feedback to players, allowing them to see specific areas for improvement and reinforcing what they do well

Coaching and Legacy

• Impact Beyond Defense: Shaun expresses his desire to be seen as a coach who cares deeply about his players’ overall development, not just their defensive skills. He aims to be remembered for creating a positive environment where players feel valued and understood
• Learning from Experience: Both Shaun and Dan B reflect on the importance of learning from past experiences and failures, shaping their approach to coaching and playing

Personal Insights

• Self-Doubt and Humility: Shaun acknowledges that even successful coaches experience self-doubt and emphasises the need for humility in leadership roles

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This week, rugby powerhouse Courtney Lawes joins old pal Dan Biggar and Daniel for a candid conversation about his illustrious career, leadership journey, and life beyond the pitch. From his time at Northampton Saints to his current adventure in French rugby, Lawes offers rare insights into the world of professional rugby and shares his thoughtful perspective on both sport and society.

🏉 KEY THEMES:

LEADERSHIP EVOLUTION

Lawes reflects on his transformation from feared enforcer to respected leader: "I've always been a player that typically learns quite quickly... I began to understand a lot more clearly how momentum and pressure ebb and flow throughout a game." His approach to leadership is refreshingly authentic - calm, relaxed, but intensely focused when it matters most.

LIONS TOUR AMBITIONS

Despite moving to France, Lawes reveals his continued aspirations for another British & Irish Lions tour. "I want to do my best if nothing else," he shares, discussing how his move to Brive hasn't diminished his international ambitions. With his wealth of experience and consistent performances, Lawes makes a compelling case for inclusion in the next Lions squad, demonstrating that age is just a number when it comes to elite performance.

CULTURAL DIFFERENCES IN RUGBY

Experience the fascinating contrast between English and French rugby cultures through Lawes' eyes. "In the UK, we focus on how to get better... whereas in France, it's very much outcome-based." Discover how these different approaches shape team dynamics, performance, and player mentality.

TEAM DYNAMICS & MENTORSHIP

"Young players are desperate for guidance," Lawes explains, sharing his philosophy on developing the next generation. His commitment to passing on knowledge shines through as he discusses mentoring younger players both at Northampton and now in France.

EMOTIONAL CONNECTION TO CLUB

Hear Lawes' powerful reflection on representing his hometown: "I'm representing the people that I grew up with, the places I grew up in, and I don't take that lightly." This emotional bond has shaped his entire approach to the game and his remarkable loyalty to Northampton Saints.

SPEAKING YOUR MIND

In an era of polarized opinions, Lawes offers a refreshing perspective: "We can disagree without hating each other." His thoughtful approach to social issues and commitment to honest dialogue provides valuable insights for navigating today's complex world.

Listen as these rugby stars discuss the psychology behind team dynamics, the challenges of playing abroad, and the importance of authenticity both on and off the field. With moments of humor, vulnerability, and wisdom, this conversation offers a fascinating glimpse into the mind of one of rugby's most respected figures.

🎧 Subscribe for more in-depth conversations with sporting legends!

#CourtneyLawes #RugbyLeadership #LionsTour #TeamCulture #SportsInterview #RugbyPodcast #DanBiggar #NorthamptonSaints #FrenchRugby #RugbyMentorship #SportsLeadership #RugbyUnion #BriveRugby

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• Love for Suffering: pushing his physical and mental limits, likening cycling pain to a form of addictive suffering
• Team Dynamics & Leadership: changing role from team leader to mentor
• ⁠Mental Edge Over Physical: fine margins in elite cycling
• Embracing Simplicity: the challenges that the structured, monastic lifestyle of cycling imposes on personal relationships
• Tour de France Victory & Emotional Release: emotional break down after crossing the finish line
• Post-Career Fears and Plans: the daunting prospect of transitioning to a new phase in life
• ⁠The Value of Team Leadership: how working with Dave Brailsford shaped his approach to cycling
• Humility and Drive: Geraint shares his humble beginnings and how his mentality was driven by proving doubters wrong

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This is the story of a decade long campaign to make contact sport safe.

In this episode, we welcome award winning author and journalist Sam Peters alongside Rugby Union World Cup winner Lewis Moody.

Sam has just won The Sports Writing Award at the Charles Tyrwhitt Book Awards for Concussed: Sport's Uncomfortable Truth, not only a fine piece of writing, but moreover a recognition for an ongoing campaign Sam has been fighting for over a decade.

Lewis won pretty well everything in Rugby Union, domestic and European titles with Leicester Tigers, British Lions caps, and most notably the World Cup with England in 2003. He himself suffered multiple serious concussions in his career; and this is the subject of today.

Show notes:

• Sam’s 10+ year campaign to save rugby
• Lewis’s own terrible concussion history
• The tragic stories of those who’ve suffered
• Mental health + concussion
• Resistance and conflicts of interest from the inside
• Grassroots and the future of rugby

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This week, we are joined by ex All Black Rugby Union legend Sean Fitzpatrick. Sean was part of the team which won the inaugural World Cup in 1987, and then captained the team subsequently. He is now Chairman at Laureus World Sports Academy.

Sean is an all round lovely guy! It was a huge pleasure talking to him.

Show notes

• Sean’s rugby background and story
• His on and off the field style
• Imposter syndrome
• Impact of winning the World Cup
• Amateur vs professional era
• Great influences

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Two old friends reunite for an unique conversation as we kick off a new mini-series for BS on Sport today exploring partnerships and what makes them great. 

Today is a pretty damn good opener as yin and yang partnerships go. We have a huge treat as we are talking to 2 icons of British sport, certainly of the cricket world; Mike Brearley and Lord Botham of Ravensworth, otherwise known as Ian Botham. 

The pair have never been interviewed like this together, so this is an unique listen.

Show notes

• The captain-player relationship
• Competitiveness, confidence, and calmness in high performance
• Experiences of fame and pressures on cricket families
• Contrasts with today’s modern sports psychology emphasis
• Reflections on their careers vs. the modern era of T20 cricket & central contracts
• Lasting camaraderie and mutual respect between players of their era
• Transitioning away from cricket into new fields in later life

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This week, we are joined by Caspar Berry. Caspar started out in acting aged 16 actor in BBC show Byker Grove with “Ant and Dec”. At Cambridge he had commercial success directing award-winning short films and TV commercials, then went on to write two feature films which were produced by Film Four and Columbia Tri Star before he had graduated. 

Aged 26, he decided to take a risk and move to Las Vegas with his life savings in his pocket, and for next few years, became a professional poker player. 

Caspar later returned to the UK to set up 21st Century Media which he later sold to Bob Geldof's Ten Alps plc. He now gives talks and mentors around the world on all his disparate experiences.

Show Notes:

• How Caspar’s early life decisions, driven by comfort with risk, led to diverse experiences
• Poker as a metaphor for decision-making processes in life and business
• The complexity of assigning probabilities to actions and the challenges posed by unpredictability
• Differences in risk-taking between individual and team sports
• The concept of 'negative metrics': sometimes the pursuit of certain performance metrics (e.g. home runs in baseball) might lead to higher failure rates (strikeouts)

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This week, we are joined by esteemed sports psychologist Andrea Furst. With a career that spans continents and disciplines, Andrea is an extremely well respected, established figure in the realm of sports psychology, known for her work with elite athletes across a wide spectrum of sports—from golf and sailing to tennis, hockey, rugby, cricket and beyond. Indeed, among other, she is currently the sports psychologist at current county cricket champions Surrey.

She is also the founder of Mental Notes, where she leads a team of sport psychologists dedicated to elevating elite performance. Her extensive experience here includes supporting multiple Olympic, Paralympic and Commonwealth Games teams.

Show notes

• How psychological principles are applied to enhance athlete performance and mental well-being
• Techniques and strategies used by Andrea to help athletes manage downtime and focus during competitions
• Adapting sports psychology practices to different cultural contexts and individual athlete needs
• The importance of addressing mental health as an integral part of sports psychology
• Impacts of her psychological interventions: maximising walking time in golf

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This week, we are joined by former England international cricketer Nick Compton. Nick is the grandson of the great Dennis, but a very fine 1st class cricketer in his own right playing for Middlesex, Somerset and 16 tests for England scoring 2 centuries in that time.

Nick wrote his memoir 'Legacy' just last year and it is a moving, poignant, searingly honest, at times harrowing story of someone who was supremely talented at his craft, but for whom it became too all consuming and challenged Nick's mental health to the edge of his survival. Nick's psychological journey is the subject of this conversation.

Show notes:

• Nick's journey of self-discovery
• The mental marathon of performance
• The realities of life as a professional athlete, beyond the glamour and accolades
• The legacy and weight of family
• The complexities of team dynamics and personal sacrifice
• Hanging out with Virat Kohli’s girlfriend

A Load of BS Events

Liam and I are hosting our inaugural business of sport and entertainment event on June 17th early evening in London.

We will be joined for discussion and drinks by Lord Ian Botham, Sir Andrew Strauss and Mo Bobat at the fabulous Patrick Mavros atelier on the Fulham Road.

If you’d like to join us…

We have a handful of seats available to podcast listeners. If you’d like to come, please email danielsjross@gmail.com with subject line: ‘A Load of BS Events RSVP’

Please leave a review if you like the podcast; and share with friends. Your support makes us very happy!

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This week, we are joined by Ben Stookesberry, legendary white water expedition kayaker whose death defying exploits on some of the most extreme rapids in the world are nothing short of awe inspiring.

“In the last 4 years alone I’ve made dozens of first descents on six continents from the tropics to the Arctic with long time kayaking partners Chris Korbulic and Pedro Oliva,” says Ben. “In total I have over 130 first descents and counting.”

SEE BEN IN ACTION!

Show notes:

• Facing fear and adversity: what it feels like close to drowning
• Preparation and mental strength to tackle extreme kayaking
• The impact of tragedy: losing a friend to a crocodile attack
• The thrill of exploring untouched environments
• A philosophy on risk and mortality
• Ben’s commitment to personal growth

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In this captivating episode, cricket legend Jimmy Anderson joins us for a candid conversation about his remarkable career spanning over two decades. The England bowling great opens up about his controversial retirement, the mental and physical challenges of Test cricket, and what keeps him motivated to continue playing county cricket into his 40s.

🔥 KEY THEMES:

RETIREMENT & AGE DISCRIMINATION

Anderson reveals he still feels capable of playing at international level and discusses how age discrimination affects not just sport but society at large. "I'm sure if the number 42 wasn't next to my name on the team sheet, I'd still be putting my name in the hat for series to come."

MENTAL HEALTH & PERFORMANCE PSYCHOLOGY

For the first time, Jimmy shares his experience with hypnotherapy and how it transformed his performance: "I went through a period of probably two or three years of using hypnotherapy... My performances around that time went through the roof."

THE PHYSICAL & MENTAL TOLL OF TEST CRICKET

Anderson shares a revealing anecdote about the extreme demands of Test cricket: "Our bodies were in such pain and mentally we were shot... we did four laps of Regent's Park in the car because we didn't want to go to the ground."

RIVALRIES & MIND GAMES

From his approach to different Australian players to personal rivalries with Michael Clarke, Anderson provides fascinating insights into the psychological aspects of fast bowling: "There were certain batters that you try and just get in the head... It's actually trying to put them off their game or out of their rhythm."

LEGACY & THE FUTURE OF CRICKET

"I'd love for some kids to get into swing bowling because they'd watch me do it... I think I'd like to see the skill side of bowling stay in the game."

Listen as one of cricket's greatest fast bowlers reflects on the friendships formed during his career, his techniques for maintaining calm under pressure, and his experiences facing the world's best batsmen. This conversation offers rare insights into the mind of a sporting great who has bowled over 50,000 deliveries in international cricket.

🎧 Subscribe to our podcast and explore the archive for more in-depth conversations with sporting legends!

#JimmyAnderson #CricketLegend #TestCricket #EnglandCricket #SportsPsychology #MentalToughness #AgeDiscrimination #SportsInterview #BowlingMasterclass #CricketGreats #TheAshes

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• The pure joy of playing football
• Playing without nerves
• Pat's perspective on embracing individuality and challenging norms
• How to eliminate cheating
• Personal growth, reflection and writing
• The great managers who understood psychology best

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• The psychology behind elite performance
• Cultivating a high-performance mindset
• Managing talents and team dynamics
• Strategies for mental strength and resilience
• The impact of leadership on team performance
• Mo 's own sporting journey 

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In this first in a new series, we talk to former England international, Kent and Middlesex cricketer Ed Smith. Ed is also a prolific writer and broadcaster, past England national selector and now founder of the Institute of Sports Humanities which teaches a unique degree in sports leadership.

We talk about:

• What sport and cricket mean to Ed
• What the study of history has taught Ed about sport
• The problem with team talks
• Emotionally intelligent coaches
• Team selection and risk taking
• How to make good decisions
• Sport as art

Hosted by Daniel Ross and Liam Botham

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Dr Grace Lordan is an Associate Professor at the London School of Economics in the Department of Psychological and Behavioural Science. She is also Founding Director there of The Inclusion Initiative which focuses on bringing together teaching, research and practice to build more inclusive work environments.

She has also written a book which I personally took huge value from, 'Think Big: Take Small Steps and Build the Career You Want', which uses behavioural science to give really practical advice about, amongst other, how to ask for pay rises, get promoted and change careers.

Show notes

• About Grace’s book ‘Think Big: Take Small Steps and Build the Career You Want’
• When is it a good time to ask for a pay rise?
• And how to get your narrative right
• Who is Me+, your future self?
• How dating experiences are different for girls and boys
• How to escape the evils of your phone
• The Inclusion Initiative at LSE: improving company leadership and culture
• Is the pipeline problem a myth or reality?
• Covid’s mass resignation; and its great regret
• Fighting for greater workplace gender equality

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I welcome this week the behavioural scientist Patrick Fagan, described by comedian David Mitchell as a "Mother Superior in nipple tassels".

He's also a former Cambridge Analytica man, if your minds can take you back to that scandal and time in history. Patrick is the author of Hooked whose by-line is 'Why cute sells and other marketing magic we just can't resist.

And by the way, he is soon to publish a new book Free Your Mind: The New World of Manipulation and How to Resist It in collaboration with Laura Dodsworth.

You’ll pick up some old references in this conversation to our former PM (which one you may reasonably ask?!) Boris Johnson here as this episode was recorded before he toppled. That aside, all the chat is super relevant.

Show notes

• Magic and creativity
• Pioneering work as lead psychologist at Cambridge Analytica
• What factors influence political preference?
• Status quo bias and fear of change
• Patrick’s book: the 10 psychological principles for crafting effective communications in 3 categories
  • Grab attention
  • Get people to think about your message
  • Influence behaviour
• Why do we get dressed?
• Unintended consequences
• Why we need to take care with nudges

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• Do corporations take enough risk?
• What do we mean by acceptable failure?
• How Alfred Butts invented Scrabble
• TS Elliot’s answer to the problem with process
• Why Dave admires Mark Zuckerberg and Elon Musk
• The wonders of good storytelling as told by Dave Trott
• AI and creativity: impacts on how we work, live and play
• How we live in partnership with AI
• Our constant state of distraction

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Today is the second in my A Load of BS on Best Behaviour with Dave Blakely, Executive VP at venture builder and super growth builder Mach49, who I continue to be delighted to collaborate with on this mini-series of conversations on innovation, design and creativity in organisations; answering questions on how we move leaders and teams to change their behaviour, to lose their conservatism and scepticism and experiment wisely.

Today Dave and I talk about discipline. We argue that leaders should have the right to beat up their employees when things go wrong. No, we don't do that really. But we do consider the value of letting a little chaos into the firm to let great ideas germinate safely.

Show notes

• Discipline: a punishment for disobedience or letting some chaos in?
• The BS of imposing discipline on CEOs
• Why Google is brilliant
• Who Dave has stolen from and made it his own
• Why generalists connect the dots better and are masters at lateral innovation
• Applying SV in Paris, Bangkok and Nairobi
• Playing mind games with clients
• Google Save and turning round violent extremists in Nazi US hate groups
• Errors of conservatism, scepticism and pessimism

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Today is the first in a 3-part series with Dave Blakely, an extraordinarily talented, sharp-witted and humble man whom I’m so happy to be collaborating with and indeed his company Mach49 where he is Executive Vice President. We talk innovation, creativity, design and the vagaries of the human condition.

Check out some of the amazing work Mach49 does driving growth and building new ventures with some of the greatest brands around.

Dave was a leader at design agency IDEO for many years and has advised organisations on innovation and design thinking as wide ranging as NASA, Google and Eli Lilly over a decades long career. He has sailed the Silicon Valley seas, studying engineering at the University of California, Berkeley, working in a Hewlett Packard spin off as well as teaching at Stanford's renowned d.school.

Show notes

• Loving building new things
• Designing the robot arm
• Learning and leading at IDEO
• Vets accidentally jabbing themselves with cattle needles
• What Mach49 does better than IDEO
• Translating research ideas into big ideas at Stanford’s d.school
• Rory Sutherland’s ‘Make it Pink’ boardroom strategy
• When did Dave last stand up and fart in front of clients?
• Unusual rituals, violent extremists, unique food packaging in the Philippines and getting in and out of a space suit
• Andy Grove’s innovation cliché at Intel
• Predictions for the Metaverse
• How does Dave remain sufficiently illogical?

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• Surprises and learning: what does it really mean to be a behavioural scientist practitioner?
• Issues at the centre of our zeitgeist: our money, healthcare, sustainability
• Meeting the drop in the bucket challenge
• Understanding the Anthropocene: our human epoch and disruptions to earth’s systems
• Language affects the experience and outcome
• Pandemic induced fractured nature of our health systems
• How to board a bus in Santiago, Chile; making payment easy
• What are the big human challenges before us which would benefit from behavioural solutions?
• Why don’t more businesses apply psychology to daily life?
• Challenging the predominance of nudge theory

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In this episode of A LOAD OF BS ON SPORT, we're joined by Brett Gosper, a true sports industry heavyweight who has seamlessly navigated the worlds of elite rugby, global advertising, and now the NFL's international expansion.

From Rugby Player to Sports Executive Extraordinaire

Brett's remarkable journey began as an Australian rugby player who, after missing out on a Wallabies trial, took a chance on playing in France. This "closing doors moment" led to a dual career – professional rugby by night and advertising executive by day. After 30 years in the advertising world, Brett made a surprising pivot back to sports, becoming CEO of World Rugby before taking on his current role as Head of NFL Europe and Asia Pacific.

Navigating Complex Sports Organisations

Brett offers fascinating insights into the contrasting challenges of leading World Rugby versus the NFL. While World Rugby required him to navigate the complex politics of a global federation with competing interests, the NFL presents a more unified but equally ambitious organisation. He reveals how his advertising background provided valuable perspective when approaching sports leadership, particularly in creating fan-centric strategies.

The Global Expansion Playbook

As the architect of the NFL's international growth strategy, Brett shares the meticulous planning behind bringing American football to new territories. From staging international games that feel like "mini Super Bowls" to developing academies in the UK and Australia, he outlines the NFL's comprehensive approach to finding the next 50 million fans outside the United States. He explains why cultural relevance is crucial when expanding into new markets, whilst still maintaining the authentic Americana experience that international fans crave.

Developing International Talent

The conversation explores the fascinating International Player Pathway programme, which has produced success stories like Jordan Mailata, the Australian former rugby league player who became the first Australian to win a Super Bowl. Brett discusses the psychological challenges these athletes face transitioning to American football and how the NFL Academy system is creating pathways for international talent to reach the highest levels of the sport.

Leadership Lessons from a Global Sports Executive

This episode isn't just for sports fans – it's a masterclass in leadership across different organisational cultures. Brett's journey demonstrates the value of being adaptable, maintaining product quality while pursuing commercial growth, and always keeping the fan perspective at the centre of decision-making.

Key Discussion Points:

Career Crossroads: How missing a Wallabies trial led Brett to a transformative career in France

From Advertising to Sports Leadership: The unexpected transition that brought Brett back to the sporting world

Balancing Culture and Commerciality: Maintaining the integrity of sports while pursuing global growth

The NFL's International Strategy: Creating fan engagement through games, academies, and flag football

Leadership Principles: The importance of listening to fans and athletes when making strategic decisions

Cultural Differences: How rugby and NFL teams approach competition and player development

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• How do we bridge the values-action gap in sustainability?
• Who’s responsibility is it – companies’ or consumers’?
• The Tesla status symbol
• Giving immediate benefits to solve a long-term problem
• How prevalent is corporate greenwashing?
• How to help people reduce domestic electricity consumption
• Moving from small, isolated experiments to impact at scale
• What makes great experimental design?
• What mistakes has Dave made?

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• Alex’s interest in tribalism, partisanship and a polarised, divided society
• Pre-empting poor outcomes – prevention is better than cure
• Social identity in the bank: what is driving behaviours and mindsets?
• How are targets and goals designed?
• How information is presented to customers (e.g. payment journeys) influences how they make decisions
• Negative outcomes, fundamental attribution errors, complex systems and unintended harm
• Customer behaviour online vs bricks and mortar
• Perceptions of Alex’s team in the bank
• Promoting shared goals and identity to get buy-in
• How do we use behavioural science to create better customer experiences?
• Designing better workplaces and customer journey environments so that behavioural change happens naturally 

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Name one thing that we all think about or discuss every single day… money. We carry so many unconscious biases when it comes to looking after our finances. You probably think you’re the exception…

Michelle Hilscher leads the financial services practice at BEworks and, armed with a PhD in cognitive psychology from the University of Toronto, is particularly interested in applying behavioural science to bring about improvements in financial decision-making and financial well-being.

Show notes

• Connecting the dots between cognitive psychology and financial services
• Belief bias
• Why is there so much interest in the BS of our finances?
• Is the sector ahead of the game?
• Pros and cons of mental accounting biases
• Windfall spending patterns post-COVID
• ‘Save More Tomorrow’: keeping people’s savings on track for the long-term
• Resolving fraud: putting customers in control
• Enforced boundaries and self-regulation
• FAFSA: psychological barriers to filling out the US college financial aid application form; neat solutions to improving educational outcomes

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• Grab’s motivation for getting into behavioural science
• How Preeti set up a BS practice from scratch and what were the objectives
• How Preeti built credibility and convinced colleagues to take behavioural science seriously?
• Early experiments: understanding why customers hate surge pricing. Not as obvious as you might imagine
• How Grab thinks about pricing by country, city and district – different cultures, norms and economies
• Experiments in making drivers feel respected
• Why companies are typically sceptical about behavioural science
• How cultural context influences how we think. Different driver motivations within SE Asia region

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• What’s happening at the intersection of behavioural science and the pharma industry?
• How behavioural science plays out at Fosun vs. Novartis
• The next frontier for healthcare and behavioural science
• What needs to happen to move to a more human-centric approach to healthcare?
  • The goal of the 1% Steps for Health Care Reform Project
• What are easy wins that the pharma industry can enact now?
• Psychological barriers for patients with autoimmune disease 
• Rosy retrospection bias and failure to prescribe the right treatment
• David Robson and expectation effects: how mindset can alter our lives
• Dan Ariely’s end of life theories and research
• The scientific method of problem solving vs. more subtle placebo effects
• Hopes for healthcare in the next year

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Introducing Zeina Afif, Renos Vakis and Ana Maria Muñoz Boudet

I’m privileged to welcome to A Load of BS the core team at eMBeD, the Mind, Development and Behaviour Unit at the World Bank. Zeina, Ana Maria and Renos are working on the front lines, alongside governments and policy makers, challenging standard policy design and trying to change behaviour in complex, unpredictable environments and solving the thorniest of problems in gender, inequality and poverty among other.

They have worked in over 70 countries, supporting the World Bank by diagnosing, designing, and evaluating behaviourally informed interventions. 

Show notes

• How music and magic contribute to behavioural science
• eMBeD’s role and purpose
• Managing policy makers in complex environments
• Using local, cultural and political context to construct behavioural science interventions
• Can the skillsets doing BS at eMBeD take you anywhere?
• Being gritty
• Disaster risk management in Haiti identifying barriers to act on hurricane early response systems encouraging people to go to their shelters
• Focusing on solutions that work vs. the best solution 
• Sustainability: projects are not a one-night stand
• Work on vaccine hesitancy
• Ensuring diversity in the World Bank
• What excites and scares the eMBeD team for the future?

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Clémence is Director and co-founder at Magenta Consulting where she and her team use behavioural insights to make sustainable and scalable change in some of the poorest, war torn and least developed parts of the world, seeking to to maximise the effectiveness and efficiency of communications interventions in support of social impact; in places like Nigeria, Tunisia, Afghanistan and Lebanon.

The focus of their projects so far has been civic education, governance and stabilisation, preventing violent extremism, counter-narcotics and women’s empowerment.

Show notes

• How Clémence got into behavioural science and the founding of Magenta Consulting
• A self-proclaimed feminist - how Clémence is changing behaviours in the gender diversity debate
  • How we engage men in the conversation
• Gender based violence in Mali: managing men without being patronising, confrontational, without framing them as the aggressors
• The Behaviour Driver Model (developed by UNICEF in the Middle East)
• Fear of judgement, of being a bad parent, norms around hitting women as means to protect their family
• The Role Model program to change gender norms and child behaviour management
• Getting comfortable seeking imperfect solutions
• Managing unintended consequences of implementing behavioural science interventions in unfamiliar environments
• Women empowerment programmes can increase risks for women
  • Ensuring women suffering from GBH get care and attention

Note: Qudwa is a SBC strategy developed by UNICEF Lebanon in 2020, with the contribution of MAGENTA Consulting

Podcast music: Tamsin Waley-Cohen's Mendelssohn's violin concerto

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Master Your Mindset With Coach Marc
Develop the leadership mindset, skills + confidence to make a bigger impact in less time!

Listen on: Apple Podcasts  Spotify

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It's a cracker this week on A Load of BS as I welcome my partner BEworks' co-founder, behavioural science leading light, writer, practitioner and speaker, Dan Ariely.

Beyond his numerous entrepreneurial ventures, Dan is the James B. Duke Professor of Psychology and Behavioural Economics at Duke University and has written seminal books like Predictably Irrational and Irrationally Yours. He's a multi time TED speaker and recognised globally as one of behavioural science's most foremost, original thinkers.

Show notes

• The story of Dan’s half beard, how he accepts and understands himself
• Persecution by the COVID deniers (joining the Bill Gates club)
• Translating BS stories into the real world: tinkering and rethinking techniques
  • What if we don’t know how to eat, exercise, sleep, have a good relationship? What would you do differently? Gaps of understanding, pools for improvement
• End of life: how do we make that chapter the best of the lives?
• When spouses have a joint checking account, they spend and fight less
• The anticipation of getting a kiss from your favourite movie star
• Insurance and misaligned incentives: a cycle of distrust and abuse
  • Removing conflicts of interest
  • Loss of value in truth telling in society
• ROI in cash handouts in international development: trust is the lubricant of the world
• Crypto currency concerns: takes trust out of the equation

Podcast music: Tamsin Waley-Cohen's Mendelssohn's violin concerto

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In partnership with BEworks, one of the very best behavioural science consultancies globally.

Cerita Bethea is Director of behavioural science at The Coca-Cola Company, and a practitioner of over 30 years standing, having also worked at Kimberley-Clark, Toyota and Ford.

Listen in for a lovely case study about washing hands; a nostalgic trip down Covid memory lane. We also project towards the next frontier; behavioural science in the metaverse. Your guess is as good as mine.

Show notes

• Cerita’s academic path into behavioural science – from law to engineering psychology
• From Ford to Kimberly-Clark to Coca-Cola
• How the profession has changed over 30 years, and what still excites Cerita about it
• Kimberly-Clark case study: tackling personal hygiene on the factory floor
• The next frontier for behavioural science: data science, behaviour and decision making in the metaverse
• Getting out of your comfort zone: how does one become a practitioner and what are the pathways to get into the field?
• What would Cerita ask back from the industry?

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I’m thrilled to be launching my partnership with BEworks today. Co-founded by Dan Ariely and Nina Mazar (previous guest on the show alongside Dilip Soman), BEworks is a multidisciplinary team of behavioural scientists and psychologists working on complex challenges across financial services to healthcare to sustainability, helping businesses reimagine a future in which individuals flourish and prosper.

And so today starts a 10-part series of short, sharp and very digestible conversations with practitioners at the heart of the action; from Coca-Cola to Novartis to Natwest Bank to the World Bank.

But today, I’m delighted to be kicking off by talking to BEwork’s new CEO Wardah Malik.

Show notes

• How does BEworks approach client challenges
• Work Wardah is most proud of
• Creating, sustainable behavioural change at scale
• BEworks’s Reimagining strategy
• Diversity of talent in behavioural science
• What skills are needed to be a successful behavioural scientist?
• The different languages of behavioural science
• The next frontier: what does better access to data and AI mean for behavioural science
• The intersection of behavioural science and cognitive technology
• Behavioural science is like the Wild West

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In this episode of A LOAD OF BS ON SPORT, we're joined by the mastermind behind some of the greatest sporting triumphs of our time - Dave Reddin. With a CV that boasts a Rugby World Cup victory, Olympic glory, and a revolutionised England football team, Dave's insights into performance coaching are nothing short of legendary.

From Grassroots Grit to Glory's Architect Dave's journey began as a semi-pro footballer with a sports science degree, but his passion for pushing boundaries soon led him to the world of performance coaching. He cut his teeth in the trenches of rugby, meticulously honing his skills and knowledge over 15 years. Now, he's the architect behind sporting giants, transforming teams and individuals into formidable forces. 

Decoding the DNA of Champions Dave reveals the secrets behind his success, delving into his unique approach of creating an "operational DNA" for every organisation he works with. He dissects the intricate process of defining "winning," meticulously analysing every facet of the organisation to pinpoint areas for improvement. Forget marginal gains – Dave champions "brilliant basics," stressing the importance of mastering the fundamentals before chasing those extra 1%s. 

Culture: The Unsung Hero Dave passionately argues that culture is the often-overlooked key to unlocking a team's true potential. He paints a vivid picture of a good culture – transparent, communicated, and co-created by every single member of the team. He shares captivating anecdotes from his time with England Rugby and the FA, revealing how he helped cultivate winning cultures that led to historic victories. 

This episode isn't just for sports fanatics – it's a masterclass in leadership, culture building, and the relentless pursuit of excellence. Dave Reddin's journey is a testament to the power of passion, meticulous planning, and the unwavering belief in the potential of every individual and team.

Key Discussion Points:

• From Footballer to Performance Powerhouse: Dave's unconventional path to the top of the sporting world.
• The "Operational DNA" of Winning: How Dave's unique approach transforms teams into champions.
• Beyond Marginal Gains: Why mastering the "brilliant basics" is the foundation for success.
• Culture is King: Unveiling the secret weapon behind high-performing teams.
• Leadership Lessons from the Trenches: Dave's experiences with legendary teams and what you can learn from them.

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My guest today is sports nut, almost pro golfer but primarily Professor at the University of Chicago and Chief Economist at Walmart John List.

Just when you thought we were about to dive into the politics of diverging golf tours, instead we're going to turn our attention to ride hailing companies Uber and Lyft, where John was also Chief Economist. What was Travis Kalanick really like to work for?

John also recently published ‘The Voltage Effect: How to Make Good Ideas Great and Great Ideas Scale’ and so we're also discussing how to scale a business and we bring it to life with the story of the failed Jamie's Italian restaurant chain.

John's passion is using field experiments to explore economic questions and so our conversation is filled with great stories from John's time in the White House, to rideshare to groceries and even collaboration with DARPA. 

Show notes

• When fieldwork is needed in scientific discovery to describe the real world
• John’s journey from the White House, Uber, Lyft and now Walmart Chief Economist
• Breaking out of silos to make deep cultural impact
• Working with DARPA, moonshots and hiring the right team
• How John didn’t become a trucker
• What interests John about the subject of scale?
• What is a voltage effect?
• The story of Jamie’s Italian and a failure to scale: negotiables and non-negotiables
• Thinking on the margin vs. by the average: applying it in the real world beyond the university campus
  • Why Logan Green, CEO Lyft, a trained econ major, was leaving dollars on the floor
• Why quitting is for winners
• Scaling culture: Uber vs Lyft
• John’s hopes for the book: add science to scaling

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Steve Martin is a behaviorial science practitioner and a leading member of Dr Robert Cialdini's consultancy Influence at Work, where he heads up the UK practice. 

Steve is a Royal Society nominated author and a co-author with Bob Cialdini on a number of books, including their most recent tome, alongside Dr Noah Goldstein, Messengers, Who We Listen to, Who We Don’t and Why. This is a timely exploration of why some people in society are listened to and why others are ignored regardless of the truth or wisdom of their message; a subject we address today. In all, Steve's books have sold in excess of 1.5 million copies.

Show notes

• The work and influence of Bob Cialdini over nearly 50 years
• What leads us to say “Yes” to a request
• What came before Bob, codifying social psychology for everyone and making it accessible
• Immunisation of influence techniques
• How a waiter/waitress can increase their tips through reciprocity
• Small Bigs: creating big impacts with small changes
• What makes some people better communicators than others?
• Why are self-confident ignoramuses so often believed and why are thoughtful experts ignored?
• In an increasingly information overloaded world, the messenger has become the message
• Hard (perceived status and dominance) and soft (making connection with others) messengers
• How truth and trust work together. How can you trust someone who lies to you?
• How do we use influence techniques for good in a world of disinformation?
• Influence and sports management: history is important, but recency keeps the score
• What Steve has learnt from co-authorship

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Returning from the Summer, this week I'm talking to Sir Michael Barber, the man who Tony Blair appointed to create and then run his Delivery Unit at No. 10.

While not overt, there's lots of behavioural science going on here: creating repeatable routines, fear of and resistance to change, influencing and persuading intransigent individuals. A great part of Michael's work after all is understanding people, with all their biases and preconceptions, and then reorganising them.

Show notes

• What Scafell Pike walk teaches you about problem solving
• Why did Tony Blair ask Michael to set up his Delivery Unit?
• What was the civil service doing before the introduction of the Delivery Unit?
• Changing real people’s lives in a very visible, meaningful way
• How boring and radical government must hang together
• Why delivery is like a soap opera as well as a documentary
• The importance of a guiding coalition in government to make policy happen
• Government by routine vs. by spasm
• Buy-in is overrated, or why you don’t need it at the beginning
• Reaching irreversibility
• How intrusive press blurs the line between transparency and privacy
• Excuses that ministers throw up to resist change
• What Michael advised Boris Johnson in 2019
• The next frontier in Delivery – using real-time data

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Bri Williams is one of the foremost behavioural scientists in Australia. She’s obsessed with application rather than theory, and I buy that approach 100%. She majored in accounting and psychology (a rare but actually quite sensible combination), built a corporate career in product design and marketing, the BS switch was flicked in 2008 when she read Dan Ariely’s ‘Predictably Irrational’; a book that would change her life.

It crystallised why she had been experiencing a nagging irritation throughout her 15 year corporate career. And it started to address questions like why people get frustrated with their colleagues, why campaigns fail and why products flop.

She realised ‘we've been doing it wrong’. Our assumptions about why and how to influence behaviour had been wrong. 

That book inspired Bri to start People Patterns, one of Australia's first consultancies to apply behavioural economics to everyday business and personal effectiveness, to write books on the topic and work with businesses to make their lives easier.

Show notes

• Bri’s funny hats, visual devices and other beh sci props
• How do I use beh sci in my podcast to get the most out of my guests?
• The story of my podcast theme tune and the tone it sets
• Bri’s background: precision and creativity
• Influence of Dan Ariely’s writing
• The 3 barriers to action: Bri’s BS model
• Marginal gains and the problems Bri loves solving
• What the best communicators do? Feelings rather than facts, audience vs. ego
• The simplicity paradox
• Escaping an elephant in Botswana

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