Explorez tous les épisodes du podcast 2Bobs—with David C. Baker and Blair Enns
| Titre | Date | Durée | |
|---|---|---|---|
| Inside the Head of a CMO | 21 Oct 2026 | 00:25:53 | |
Given the data from recent research about Chief Marketing Officers, David has four things creative agencies should keep in mind during sales and work interactions with them. LINKS "Inside the Head of a CMO" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com The Boathouse Fifth Annual CEO Study Confessions of a CMO: A Field Guide to How CMOs Are Evolving to Thrive Under Corporate Pressure | |||
| Get Your Freak On! | 07 Oct 2026 | 00:25:41 | |
Blair has been thinking about how, as AI continues to streamline more administrative tasks over time, we will be left to focus on the things we humans are good at – interacting with other humans. Because of this, the interesting people will win in selling their services and expertise. Links "The Interesting People Will Win" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com "The Fertility Crash Will Make the World a Small Town" by Tyler Cowen for The Free Press | |||
| Do You Need an Advisory Board? | 23 Sep 2026 | 00:16:50 | |
We all know how valuable external input from trusted advisors can be for our business. But what does that look like for independent agencies who don't have investors to answer to? LINKS "Do Independent Firms Need A Board?" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| A Proposed AI Contribution Scale | 09 Sep 2026 | 00:20:34 | |
Categorizing AI-generated copy as "human vs AI" is not as binary as with AI-generated images or video. So Blair has developed an AI Contribution Scale to help us all be more transparent when using LLMs in the creation of written communication intended for prospects, clients, and peers. [This episode's notes are AI-0] Links"The Coming Collapse of 'Thought Leadership'" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com Curt Jaimungal's 5-minute YouTube video on why you shouldn't let AI write for you | |||
| How Sellable Are You? | 26 Aug 2026 | 00:22:14 | |
In a recent article, David discloses the questions all creative agency principals need to answer whenever they are ready to find the right buyer and successfully navigate the merger and acquisition (M&A) process to complete the sale.
LINKS "How Sellable Is Your Firm?" by David C. Baker for Punctuation.com | |||
| Positioning, Strategy, and AI | 12 Aug 2026 | 00:26:40 | |
Blair and David are hearing all kinds of people talking about how their positioning needs adjustment because of AI. Blair does see an issue developing for many creative firms, but more with business strategy instead of positioning. Links Positioning: The Battle for Your Mind and The 22 Immutable Laws of Marketing by Al Ries and Jack Trout Good Strategy / Bad Strategy by Richard Rumelt Playing to Win by Roger L. Martin The Lords of Strategy by Walter Kiechel, III | |||
| Employee Retreats for Remote-First Teams | 29 Jul 2026 | 00:20:36 | |
David recommends regular in-person company-wide gatherings for remote workers as an opportunity for creative agencies to help build their organization's culture in our post-pandemic economy where online video meetings continue to fill our calendars and working from home is the new norm.
LINKS "Investing in Ee Retreats at Remote Firms" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| Productization (Again) | 15 Jul 2026 | 00:23:30 | |
Blair changes his mind on productized services. Again. And AI is the reason.
LINKS "The New Age of Consulting" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com | |||
| Thirteen Signals Your Website Should Send | 01 Jul 2026 | 00:20:28 | |
David shares a quick list of website elements he sees is missing from a lot of creative firms' websites which could help them attract more new business. Links "13 Signals Your Website Might Send" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| Embrace the Marketing Mess | 17 Jun 2026 | 00:24:45 | |
Blair shares what stuck in his mind about marketing success from listening to a recent podcast interview with Rory Sutherland on Liam Curley's Undisputed Authority. Links "Embrace the Marketing Mess" article by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com Rory Sutherland podcast interview on Liam Curley's Undisputed Authority | |||
| Firms Most at Risk | 03 Jun 2026 | 00:26:43 | |
Which segments of our field will thrive in the near future and which ones will slowly lose relevance, and why? David wants creative entrepreneurs to continue being resilient and reinventing themselves every two years while keeping a watchful eye on constantly evolving industry practices and technologies (including AI). Links | |||
| Pricing Resentment | 20 May 2026 | 00:20:18 | |
Blair sees creative entrepreneurs opening themselves up to pricing resentment from their clients when the value of their contributions diminishes over time, especially when they've created significant economic value at the beginning of a long-term engagement.
LINKS "Is Your Pricing Creating Resentment?" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com | |||
| People vs. Profits | 06 May 2026 | 00:21:41 | |
Prompted by a recent trip to Europe, David considers how the differences between worker protection laws in Europe compared to North America affect starting and running an agency in this fast-changing global economy. Links "Employment Law + Economic Flexibility" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com 2Bobs in Tuscany Join David, Blair, six other business owners and their spouses for four days and nights of creative business exploration in an intimate countryside villa designed for long meals, deep conversations, and unhurried thinking. Learn more and apply at 2Bobs.com/events | |||
| Three Patterns of Lost Opportunities | 22 Apr 2026 | 00:29:24 | |
Blair identifies three recurring categories of lost sales in creative firms and offers solutions to each. Fixing two of these patterns can reap the dividends immediately, and adjusting your sales approach for all three will pay off for years.
LINKS "Three Patterns of Lost Opportunities" article by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com "Slapping Down Your Childlike Glee" 2Bobs episode "Debriefing After a New Business Call" 2Bobs episode "Assume an Advantaged Player" 2Bobs episode "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode | |||
| Why Clients Come, Stay, and Leave | 08 Apr 2026 | 00:19:43 | |
David sees a lot of creative agencies making bad assumptions about their client relationships by not making the distinction between the reasons why clients come to them in the first place, why they choose to continue working with them as time passes, and then why they ultimately move on.
LINKS "Distinguishing Between Why Clients Come, Stay, and Leave" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| Is AI Going to Kill Labor-based Pricing? | 25 Mar 2026 | 00:27:45 | |
Blair is stunned that he still encounters so many advisory businesses like ad agencies, consulting firms, legal and accounting practices — large and small — that are still selling time. So he and David discuss what new revenue models should look like as we all adapt to how AI is changing our businesses. Links "Time's Up, Babycakes" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com Time's Up!: The Subscription Business Model for Professional Firms by Paul Dunn and Ronald J. Baker The Automatic Customer: Creating a Subscription Business in Any Industry by John Warrillow The Forever Transaction by Robbie Kellman Baxter Subscribed: Why the Subscription Model Will Be Your Company's Future – and What to Do About It by Tien Tzuo and Gabe Weisert | |||
| If I Were Starting a New Firm | 11 Mar 2026 | 00:34:46 | |
Blair interviews David about a recent article he's been receiving a lot of feedback on, in which he lists all of the things he would try to incorporate into a brand new creative agency, based on what he's seen and learned from working with thousands of firms over the years. Links "If I Started A New Firm, Now" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| Decoy or Anchor? | 25 Feb 2026 | 00:21:19 | |
Blair differentiates between decoy pricing and price anchoring, which are two different techniques that are often confused for each other, and can increase your average proposal value in multi-option pricing when used appropriately. Links "Decoy or Anchor?" article by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com | |||
| We Are All Closet Socialists | 11 Feb 2026 | 00:20:03 | |
Despite the fact that many entrepreneurs hate people telling them what to do, they end up running their own agencies using a "central planning" model. Instead, David encourages entrepreneurial leaders to set clear standards, give staff more freedom, and institute kind accountability, for them and ourselves. Links "Countering Your 'Central Planning' Tendencies" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| Shower Your Way to Sales Success | 28 Jan 2026 | 00:20:47 | |
David interviews Blair about his recent article in which he gives us methods to cope with our own natural emotional and physiological responses that can be triggered when unforeseen events unfold within sales conversations.
LINKS "Can Improv and Cold Plunges Improve Your Sales?" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com Blair's interview on the Undisputed Authority podcast with Liam Curley | |||
| Why Entrepreneurs Are Unemployable | 14 Jan 2026 | 00:23:53 | |
Blair interviews David about a recent article in which he argues that the very traits that make entrepreneurs successful also make it hard for them to give up being their own boss and join someone else's company.
LINKS "What Makes Entrepreneurs Unemployable" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| The Problem of Mechanistic Thinking | 31 Dec 2025 | 00:20:48 | |
David interviews Blair about his recent article in which he explores how our businesses are not simple machines that can be tuned (or killed) with specific wrenches, but they are complex adaptive organisms that we need to understand differently.
LINKS "Your Business Is Not a Machine" by Blair Enns for winwitoutpitching.com | |||
| Oppositio Singularis: The Positioner's Folly | 17 Dec 2025 | 00:13:44 | |
David sees too many marketing agencies trying to attract new business by staking claims of specialness on things for which nobody is claiming the opposite, instead of building their positioning on uniquely defined expertise. | |||
| Dealing With the Ghosting Problem | 03 Dec 2025 | 00:24:19 | |
Are prospects not responding to your follow-up after you submit a proposal? Blair goes through what might be causing their lack of response and then provides three tools to address the ghosting problem. Links "Ghosted. Now What?" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com "The Power of a Metaphor" 2Bobs episode | |||
| Defending the Castle When the Moats Are Drained | 19 Nov 2025 | 00:30:39 | |
One characteristic of our industry is disappearing moats. After a brief overview of the fourteen moats we've lost from 1965 to today, we'll look at what turf we really have left to defend and what the future will look like if we get this right. It'll be very different, and you'd better get ahead of it. | |||
| The Four Priorities of Winning New Business | 05 Nov 2025 | 00:27:32 | |
What do we do in those situations where we have to pitch? Blair simplifies some important principles from his books into a sequence of four precepts we can follow when the sales process doesn't progress like we'd hoped. Links "The Only New Business Indicator That Matters" 2Bobs episode | |||
| Understanding Earnouts | 22 Oct 2025 | 00:25:03 | |
If/when you sell your firm, it'll likely be the largest transaction of your life, and so it makes sense to understand it! In this episode David gives a crash course in everything earnouts.
LINKS "Understanding Earnouts" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| Grow or Die? | 08 Oct 2025 | 00:32:56 | |
Blair recognizes growth opportunities in every area of life and business, yet sees many people chasing metrics while unknowingly resisting genuine progress for various reasons.
LINKS "Chief Growth Officer" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com | |||
| You're Cheating Clients Unless You're Repetitive | 24 Sep 2025 | 00:21:14 | |
David recognizes that the fear of repeating ourselves in our client work is motivated by the right things: "am I delivering value?"
LINKS "Repeating Yourself as an Expert" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| How to Get $500M to Build a Website | 10 Sep 2025 | 00:30:13 | |
Blair tells the story of recreation.gov and how its performance pay deal has been nothing but wins for every party involved, with plenty of lessons for buyers and sellers of all kinds of services.
LINKS "Performance Pay Leads to a $500M Website" by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com | |||
| When a Key Employee Wants Equity | 27 Aug 2025 | 00:21:14 | |
David provides a framework for one of the most important conversations in a creative agency principal's life.
LINKS "When A Key Employee Wants Equity" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com "Pros + Cons of Having a Partner" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| SpamHack Your Way to Growth! | 13 Aug 2025 | 00:19:35 | |
Instead of railing against AI-generated spam, Blair decides to "get in on the action" with his brand new SpamHack AI Growth System™️ in this spoof episode. | |||
| What I Learned From Teaching Motorcycle Racing | 30 Jul 2025 | 00:25:04 | |
David recognizes more than a few parallels between his passion for motorcycle racing and the work being done in creative and marketing agencies.
LINKS "What I Learned from the Race Track" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| A DIY New Business System | 16 Jul 2025 | 00:33:23 | |
Instead of just relying on the talent of individual sales people, Blair recommends creative agencies identify and invest in six elements as a part of their organization's long-term sales system.
LINKS "Critical Questions Your New Business Person Should Be Able to Answer" 2Bobs episode "How to Ask for Referrals" 2Bobs episode "CRM and the Mistakes to Avoid" 2Bobs episode | |||
| Dealing With Today's Employee | 02 Jul 2025 | 00:24:44 | |
David finds the courage to address a topic he's been putting off for awhile, as he is seeing more agency principals struggling to maintain both healthy and productive work environments by leading the ongoing process of resolving tensions within their teams.
LINKS "Adapting to a Modern Workforce" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| There Is No Credential Meeting | 18 Jun 2025 | 00:30:32 | |
Instead of beginning the relationship with a prospective client by presenting a deck on why your agency is so amazing and why you should be invited to pitch, Blair encourages us to have the "Probative Conversation" from his Four Conversations sales model.
LINKS "There Is No Credentials Meeting" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise" 2Bobs episode The Four Conversations: A New Model for Selling Expertise book by Blair Enns | |||
| The Waterfall of Differentiation | 04 Jun 2025 | 00:27:21 | |
When it comes to positioning, David is still seeing creative firms failing to answer three essential questions in the proper sequence: category, specialization, and then secondary differentiators (or qualifying characteristics). | |||
| Always Be Anchoring | 21 May 2025 | 00:30:26 | |
Blair sees high price anchors everywhere—from buying a suit to ordering a burger. So what factors should creative firms keep in mind as they use anchoring in selling their service options? And when is the best time to present the anchor option within the sales conversation? Links | |||
| What to Ask, Sign, and Share With a Potential Buyer | 07 May 2025 | 00:23:54 | |
Following up on the recent episode on whether you should be considering that offer to sell your firm, David provides four questions to get answered, two documents to sign, and a short list of materials that can help you take the lead in early conversations with a buyer.
LINKS | |||
| The Power of a Metaphor | 23 Apr 2025 | 00:26:28 | |
The more unexpected the metaphor, the more information it carries. Blair has four less-obvious metaphors to give you access to entire playbooks in just four words when selling your expertise.
LINKS "The Power of a Metaphor" written by Blair Enns for winwithoutpitching.com | |||
| Should You Entertain That Acquisition Offer? | 09 Apr 2025 | 00:24:39 | |
Ignoring any unexpected offers to buy your business that might come your way is not in your best interest. But neither is dating all opportunities in desperation. David has four things principals should consider, whether or not you are actively looking to sell your firm. Links "Should You Entertain That Offer?" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| When Your Clients Talk to Each Other | 26 Mar 2025 | 00:23:38 | |
Your clients are far more likely to talk to each other when you have vertical positioning. Blair has observed both good and bad things arising from this. Links | |||
| Facing an Existential Crisis? | 12 Mar 2025 | 00:28:43 | |
As we are hearing about more firms that are closing during these challenging times, David offers some guidance to help cut through the confusion when our worst fears in our business become reality.
Links "Facing an Existential Crisis" article by David for punctuation.com | |||
| Who Should Set Prices? | 26 Feb 2025 | 00:41:01 | |
As Blair continues to encourage expert practice owners to price the client and not the service, he and David discuss the pros and cons of four levels of pricing authority they should be thinking about within their firm, instead of just assuming pricing responsibility automatically defaults to a specific role or job title. Links"Who Should Set Prices In Your Firm?" written by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com | |||
| 10 Reasons a Buyer Might Want Your Firm | 12 Feb 2025 | 00:32:41 | |
David thinks principals should build their firms as if they were going to sell it while Blair's advice is to run it as if you'll never sell it. Being aware of options as your firm matures can give you the leverage you might need in negotiations. Links "Ten Reasons Firms Are Bought" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| To Standardize or Customize | 29 Jan 2025 | 00:35:31 | |
Through the process of writing his latest book, Blair's thinking has evolved on whether or not firms should resist the urge to productize their services as they work to creatively meet the unique needs of each client. | |||
| Don't Bother Eating Your Veggies | 15 Jan 2025 | 00:24:56 | |
In Blair's experience, the most common reason a lead generation plan doesn't get executed is it doesn't recognize and leverage the strengths or motivations of the individuals executing.
LINKS "The Best Lead Generation Plan" article by Blair Enns for WinWithoutPitching.com "The Rungs You Can Reach on the Ladder of Lead Generation" 2Bobs episode | |||
| Adapting Hiring Strategies Over Time | 01 Jan 2025 | 00:26:05 | |
David describes the differences in what kind of people principals should hire during the early stage of their creative firm's development when it's all about "what we can afford," the middle stage when it's about "what we need," and then the later days of an agency when it's about "what we can learn."
LINKS "How Your Hiring Strategies Change" by David C. Baker for punctuation.com | |||
| The Barbell of Pricing Risk | 18 Dec 2024 | 00:26:14 | |
Blair borrows a concept from finance and fitness to help creative agencies find the balance between low risk and high risk pricing strategies. | |||
| Selling Your Professional Services Firm | 04 Dec 2024 | 00:41:23 | |
Blair interviews David about his new book, Selling Your Professional Services Firm: A Primer.
LINKS | |||